Five for Friday

I am finished the yoke of the Bohus, although some of these pictures are from yesterday because today my camera batteries are dead and it’s too cold to go to the store. It will warm up later and I’ll go (a moment of respect for how quickly the human perspective can shift? I am now calling the change from -20 to -15 “warming up”) but for now, you get yesterdays pictures.

Bohusyoketoye0209

There have been some requests to see the wrong side, and what with the absolute joy that I find in the wrong side of stranded knitting, I have to comply.

Bohusyowro0207

Now that I’m at the division for the body, I have a dilemma. The pattern is written to knit the yoke in the round, then divide your stitches into two sleeves, a front and a back, all of which are knit flat (back and forth) and then seamed up.

Now, I’m a big fan of flat knitting, but I am considering converting the sweater to knit in the round (like Sally did) for a couple of reasons. Firstly, I don’t want to sew those seams. Secondly, I’m planning a couple of changes that would be easier to knit in if I were working in the round, and it would make it real “idiot knitting” if I didn’t even have to turn at the end of a row. (Believe it or not, the need for idiot knitting was the reason I started this sweater.) Finally, I don’t like knitting back and forth on circulars, but straight needles that are 2.5mm are too flexible for me to enjoy, considering the way I stick one needle under my arm to knit. I’m currently in consultation with Susanna and a couple of other clever knitters, but I was wondering what you think.

Five Questions



1. How important do you feel it is to “stick with tradition” and execute patterns with a history in a way that protects that?

2. Do you worry that if we go around changing the way that things have always been done that we will lose that history?

3. Susanna has said that she thinks that garments that are split and seamed wear better and last longer, and this may be true, although my own knitting history, other knitting traditions (like fair isle, or Norwegian sweaters that are knit in the round and steeked) and another clever knitter I’ve been emailing with all suggest that may not be true. Dale’s hold up really well, and there’s not a seam in sight. Do you think that seams are important for wear?

4. Some garments need seams for structure. Woe betide the knitter who takes the side seams out of a heavy aran, for she takes some of the integrity of the sweater with her. The garment, without the seams to strengthen them easily stretch out of shape. The bohus sweaters, however, are very, very lightweight. If a sweater does not need seams for structure or integrity, can you think of any other reason to have them?

Bohuswholeyo0207

I found some batteries. That’s the whole yoke.



5. Do you think I’m thinking about a sweater too much, am in danger of being called “overly focussed” again and just need to make up my mind and knit the thing, because seriously, this is not a huge issue?

Note – Added later: Some of you have noticed some issues with the blog having capacity problems. Apparently, although we do not have too many blue shirts in our closet, we open and close the door too often, and the closet owner (webhosting service) has “throttled access” to limit the number of times the door is opened and closed. Ken (without wanting to throttle anyone, which makes him a much better person than I am) is working on it. Please bear with us.

304 thoughts on “Five for Friday

  1. Knitting is dynamic and got to us because other knitters thought of a “better” way, more interesting way to work a pattern. You have thought about it and now you know what you want to do – knit in the round – you aren’t wearing this sweater each day on the fishing boat, are you? Besides, seams mean you make your sweater twice – never assemble! Looking forward to the end result. Your sweater doesn’t so much match appliances from the 1970 as it matches the table cloth/upholstery you took the picture on.

  2. Go for the seamless approach. Whoever put seams in this design probably LIKED sewing pieces together!

  3. My Dear Harlot: Go forth and do what blows your skirt up. Remember this is supposed to be fun!

  4. You know my take on it: it’s tradition and you don’t f*** with tradition. Keep your evil changing paws off of it and do it the way it’s been done since it began.
    p.s. Of course, that’s my reflex response to anything that messes with time-honoured things and I might be persuaded to see the point if I wasn’t still bitter about how Disney changed the end to my favourite H.C. Andersen fairytale just because maybe the original tale of the little mermaid was a little dark. It is my favourite exactly because of the way it ends. I mean – you don’t make the Mona Lisa blond, do you?
    p.p.s. What was the question again?

  5. This is my first time posting a comment (have been reading your blog for a very long time and love all your books). Your yoke is beautiful!! And as for changing the pattern, in the words of a very wise knitter; “there are no knitting police!”

  6. If you were knitting the piece for a museum then it should be done the historically correct way. You are making this sweater for yourself and you should feel free to indulge in your creativity. I fiddled with the Mermaid sweater and found a better way to do the i-cord on the cast on. The sweater looks the same way as designed and I eliminated the headache of picking up a million stitches from a mile of i-cord. I vote that you do the Bohus YOUR way whatever way that is as long as YOU like the end result.

  7. You know my take on it: it’s tradition and you don’t f*** with tradition. Keep your evil changing paws off of it and do it the way it’s been done since it began.
    p.s. Of course, that’s my reflex response to anything that messes with time-honoured things and I might be persuaded to see the point if I wasn’t still bitter about how Disney changed the end to my favourite H.C. Andersen fairytale just because maybe the original tale of the little mermaid was a little dark. It is my favourite exactly because of the way it ends. I mean – you don’t make the Mona Lisa blond, do you?
    p.p.s. What was the question again?

  8. Our grandmothers would have laughed themselves silly at the notion of doing something inefficient and pointless in order to “carry on tradition.” (It’s not like seaming a sweater is an esoteric technique in danger of being lost.) Nor are Bohice ancient — and yoked Fair Isle sweaters are older, seamless and hold up fine. I strongly suspect Bohice were knit this [perverse]way so they could have the pro’s do the yoke and the easy bits could be farmed out, and that a sensible, non-commercial Bohus would be knit bottom-to-top. As it is, I can’t see a single reason not to knit it in the round.
    We all need to get out more. We need a thaw.

  9. It’s yours: both the making and wearing of it. So make it uniquely yours by doing whatever is most interesting to you.
    I’m usually looking for the seamless approach whenever possible, but I’d be a little conflicted about historical accuracy on a Bohus myself. Ultimately though I’d do what feels best in the moment of knitting this particular garment for myself.
    No help with decision-making, am I? 🙂 Enjoy whatever you come up with!

  10. Because I’ve spent most of my life studying language (even though I don’t always spell properly) I tend to relate it to everything. Knitting for me is a language. Language is dynamic and can grow both more complicated and more beautiful as it changes. It can also grow more logical and simple. Just like language, there are reasons for certain things and sometimes they’re just that way because that’s the way they’ve always been done. Nothing will be lost memory/tradition-wise if you know the road you’re coming from. After all, many traditions were simply adaptations of their time.

  11. Steph, go seamless! Sounds like you have more reasons to work in the round than to stick with tradition. I have never had a problem with lightweight sweaters not having a seam – I think they actually wear better that way. And, no this is not a huge issue.

  12. I love traditional patterns, and one way of enjoying them is to do an exact recreation the way “they would have.” But I also enjoy incorporating aspects of traditional stuff into new things – what kind of fun do you want out of this sweater?
    I also think that part of the history of knitting is someone changing the way things are always done and then rediscovering the old ways again.
    I know that the seams on the sweaters i make are the first thing to wear, but that’s probably related to me skill at sewing them up. So I would make it in the round.

  13. I’ve always thought it more important to understand the root of a tradition and then honor that root rather than blindly adhering to the tradition. That allows for all sorts of variants and improvements that still adhere to the spirit of the tradition, if not exactly the letter.
    As for seams… I generally dislike seams. I don’t like sewing them up, and I don’t like wearing anything with bulky seams (goes for store-bought stuff as well as hand made).
    So, I say quit thinking so much and knit the sweater in whichever way you feel like. It’ll be beautiful no matter which way you choose.

  14. I was gonna say what rams said, but apparently I’m slow at getting a comment posted. (maybe cuz my puter is being dumb and not showing me the yoke picture. I will make it behave after I hit post)

  15. things change, methods change. change within a tradition still preserves that tradition; i think it might even strengthen it by making it more relevant to current and future generations.

  16. I think this is a really interesting question and one that I see more among my quilting friends. I guess in my view it comes down a bit to the process vs. product dichotomy. There is no right or wrong answer (IMO) because maybe sometimes you want to knit (or quilt) a project with a historical look, but you want to take advantage of new materials, techniques, etc. to achieve the “look” without maybe utilizing a process that isn’t enjoyable–at least at that point. There are other times when we want to explore the history of a technique or idea and then–perhaps even knowing it is slower or harder–we choose to use the traditional techniques in order to “connect” with the tradition. It’s probably important for us to remember too that what we think of as “traditional” or even “quaint” was, at the time, a technique for making the best use of the materials and knowledge of the process at the time. Shoot, we wouldn’t have bohus or fair isle or other traditions if some creative knitter hadn’t been the first one to step outside of THEIR tradition and try something that was new. It is only “historical” or “traditional” for us because it is our past, not present.
    What a ramble, eh? LOL

  17. 1. Sticking with tradition is good as long as it results in a finished product that you’ll be happy with.
    2. History is not lost as long as, when we change things, we remember (and tell other interested parties) where the tradition has come from.
    (I’d just like to add that I’m an English teacher and I’ve just ended two sentences in prepositions. Oh, the shame.)
    3. No idea here, because I, um, Idon’tlikesweaters. I shall go hide under my desk now.
    5. Over-thinking? No. Knitting is important. It’s your job to think about it. It’s my job to educate 9th graders, but I think about knitting a great deal more than about them, so I’d say you’re fine. 🙂

  18. Looking lovely. I especially like the bright yellow.
    It is always a good time to start your own tradition. I don’t think seams make a bohus what it is. As with all knitting, patterns are open to personal interpretation.

  19. I can answer the first one for you. I’m all for preserving history, but sometimes things are changed and improved upon with good reason. Do you still want to rely on fax machines or do you like the relative ease of e-mail?

  20. I for one Hate SEWING with a passion . This goes for ALL sewing of any kind. I could never figure out if we were supposed to be KNITTING an item WHY in the name of everything holy do we end up sewing !! We are supposed to learn from the past and improve on it so go for it and do the round. It will be glorious as is the yolk

  21. It depends on why you’re knitting. If you’re knitting to illustrate an historical technique for a reason, such as a museum peice, then you use historical methods and materials. If you’re knitting to wear the sweater and it’s easier for you to change the traditional method to something equally as valid, then change the method. Speaking as an historian, I believe there is a time and a place for historical methodology… this ain’t that. You’re knitting for fun, and for something warm, and for something mindless to do. Have fun.

  22. go ahead and do what you want. it’ll be fine in the round with such lightweight yarn.
    it’s beyond beautiful…

  23. Knitting tradition is interesting, but this is an evolving craft. You don’t speak Old English, you aren’t writing with a quill, so if there is a more pleasing way to create your knitting, why not do it? As for wear, I have several sweaters knit in the round that are over 20 years old and the wear they show is not related to seaming – it is at the ends of the cuff mostly. Finally, if you like being ‘too focused,’ then don’t fret about it. But if it is interfering with the pleasure you take in your knitting, then stop looking over your shoulder and just go for what makes you happy! We do more honor to our predecessors when we take inspiration from them and make our own creations, then we do if we blindly lock ourselves into their methods and choices.

  24. I wouldn’t say that you are being ‘overly focussed’ here. I think any time that you are dealing with a historical process that it is appropriate to think about how and why you are altering it, before you do so. I don’t think that we are obligated to do something the way that it has always been done; I think a lot of interesting results can be achieved by turning tradition on its head or re-interpreting it in a modern way. The people who are most successful at doing that are the people who truly understand the tradition before they start to play with it. And where would new traditions come from if no one ever used the old ones as a jumping off point? Personally I hate seaming so if it isn’t going to alter the structure of the garment I would be tempted to knit it in the round as well.

  25. I say go with the seamless plan. I don’t like sewing up seams and love knitting in the round so I may not be the best person to ask in the first place.
    I like traditions. But I like traditions that have evolve with the times. I think since you know the history then you are completely allowed to do whatever you like with that knowledge even if it means knitting the pattern a wee bit different.

  26. We aren’t still beating our clothes against a rock in the river to get the clean are we? Easier isn’t always bad and if knitting in the round is what works best then use it!

  27. 1. NO
    2. NO
    I know some folks are obsessed in historical accuracy and authenticity but unless you are knitting for a museum or a reenactment, I’m not sure what the big deal is. I also suspect that in the process we reify one method of many that were used. I refuse to believe that all those knitters knit exactly the same way. Most of them probably made the same kinds of adjustments to suit their personal style that we do (not to mention fudging things when necessary).
    3. & 4
    I also cannot comprehend all the discussion about seams. I don’t buy that they provide structure. It seems to me that if your sweater is going to stretch due to the weight (and yours probably isn’t) then seams that don’t stretch just create a really crappy looking hemline.Consequently, I don’t put “false seams” of purl stitches in knitting either.
    So I guess that comes down as, do it the way you feel most comfortable. You’ve got a lot of experience and I’m pretty sure a plain stockingnette body knit in the round is not going to do anything weird.
    As for question 5. You earn a living as a knitter. It is your JOB to be overly focussed on this stuff.

  28. First of all, though in general I’m a bright rainbow color sort of girl, I have to say that those colors are GORGEOUS. The inside-out view looks like a Van Gough painting of a brilliant sun over spring-green meadows. 70s appliances be damned, those colors are warming my heart on this cold, rainy San Francisco day. (Oops, not cold. It’s probably 56 degrees Farenheit out there. With no minus sign in front. Yes, you may make fun of me.)
    Now, on to the specifics. Re 1 and 2, if you read a lot about the history and traditions of knitting, especially about the provenance of particular garments that have been unearthed, you find that individual knitters were very creative in how they did things. While there might have been typical tools and styles of knitting available/widely taught at particular times, each individual knitter made the craft his/her own, to suit his/her own likes, dislikes and abilities. Knitting is a creative endeavor. I say be creative and do it the way that best suits you. Because Bohus sweaters were originally made to very exacting specifications, yours might end up being a variation of a Bohus, but thanks to Wendy Keele’s lovely book and all of the amazing ladies who knit the original Bohus sweaters, I don’t think we are in any danger of losing that history. Make some new history!
    Re seams, what about EZ’s phoney seams? I’ve never done them (though I’m working on a sweater for Afghans for Afghans right now that I intend to do them on). I’d be curious to know what others think of that technique.
    Re number five, I say have have a shot of Screech (maybe warm it up a bit first given the weather) and think about it some more.
    Have fun!

  29. First of all, though in general I’m a bright rainbow color sort of girl, I have to say that those colors are GORGEOUS. The inside-out view looks like a Van Gough painting of a brilliant sun over spring-green meadows. 70s appliances be damned, those colors are warming my heart on this cold, rainy San Francisco day. (Oops, forgot–never tell a Canadian that it’s cold in San Francisco. It’s probably 56 degrees Farenheit out there. With no minus sign in front. Yes, you may make fun of me.)
    Now, on to the specifics. Re 1 and 2, if you read a lot about the history and traditions of knitting, especially about the provenance of particular garments that have been unearthed, you find that individual knitters were very creative in how they did things. While there might have been typical tools and styles of knitting available/widely taught at particular times, each individual knitter made the craft his/her own, to suit his/her own likes, dislikes and abilities. Knitting is a creative endeavor. I say be creative and do it the way that best suits you. Because Bohus sweaters were originally made to very exacting specifications, yours might end up being a variation of a Bohus, but thanks to Wendy Keele’s lovely book and all of the amazing ladies who knit the original Bohus sweaters, I don’t think we are in any danger of losing that history. Make some new history!
    Re seams, what about EZ’s phoney seams? I’ve never done them (though I’m working on a sweater for Afghans for Afghans right now that I intend to do them on). I’d be curious to know what others think of that technique.
    Re number five, I say have have a shot of Screech (maybe warm it up a bit first given the weather) and think about it some more.
    Have fun!

  30. I put traditional knitting in the same category as traditional music–adapt it to the times. So knit it in the round already!

  31. As for your questions: Please do whatever makes knitting enjoyable.
    My question: If you ever have the inclination, could you post of picture of what it looks like to knit with one needle under your arm? I’ve never seen this done. (Now, I have knit K1P1 ribbing with a needle held between my knees…I’m wondering if this is a variation on a theme.)
    Stay warm!

  32. Do what you want. I’m doing a Bohus now (how did you manage to complete the yoke so quickly?) and am doing it on straight needles, simply because I like them better than circulars as I knit with one needle stuck on my hip. This sweater is so light-weight that seams shouldn’t matter at all. Tradition is nice but I can’t see any reason to not knit this in the round if you want. Even those who like to do traditional knitting in the round should bear in mind that the original knitters used dpns, not circulars.

  33. Delurking here.
    Thanks a lot for thinking aloud about this! I have knitted one single sweater so far (and that was over 20 years ago), on straight needles, with seams…don’t want to get in more details on this sensitive subject.
    You have probably guessed by now that I don’t have a clue about the pro and cons of seamless or not seamless. That’s why I just want to say ‘thank you’ for bringing it up. I am now quiet again, reading and learning. Maybe having to reconsider to knit my next sweater in EZ style. Her books have given me confidence so far to give that sweater thing a new chance, but…
    Sweater student in Munich

  34. Elizabeth Zimmermann didn’t believe in seams, why should we? (and, I’m of Swedish descent, love Bohus, but as stubborn as we Swedes are, we are practical people and treasure practicality above needle tradition!)

  35. I say chang it.
    You are knitting this for you, not a museum. When someone compliments you on it you can say it was “inspired by…”, and mention that you changed a few things. If they are actually interested, they’ll know. The rest of the Muggles wouldn’t have a clue if you came out and skewered them with your pointy sticks!!!
    Tradition is great, but as you said…
    “Secondly, I’m planning a couple of changes that would be easier to knit in if I were working in the round, and it would make it real “idiot knitting” if I didn’t even have to turn at the end of a row”
    You’re ALREADY changing something… so go seamless!!!
    It is Beautiful!!! you’re making me want to knit one Right Away!!!
    Vicki

  36. Delurking here.
    Thanks a lot for thinking aloud about this! I have knitted one single sweater so far (and that was over 20 years ago), on straight needles, with seams…don’t want to get in more details on this sensitive subject.
    You have probably guessed by now that I don’t have a clue about the pro and cons of seamless or not seamless. That’s why I just want to say ‘thank you’ for bringing it up. I am now quiet again, reading and learning. Maybe having to reconsider to knit my next sweater in EZ style. Her books have given me confidence so far to give that sweater thing a new try, but…
    Sweater student in Munich

  37. I read somewhere that “there are no knitting police.”
    So do what makes you happiest.

  38. I knit fake seams when I knit in the round. I knit a twisted purl stitch where the seam is supposed to be. That way I don’t have to sew anything together – which I abhor – and can continue mindless knitting since my fingers automatically (usually!) tell me where the purl is. It really looks like a seam. With none of the disadvantages!

  39. i love this sweater! i agree with most folks that you should adapt if it makes your life easier or you’re interested in exploring it. you can go back to “tradition” on your next project if you so desire. i have recently started my own bohus interpretation (via IK winter 06) and, since it’ll be my second sweater, i’m freaked out about the small needles and thin yarn. thanks to your post i will be able to appreciate the miles of plain stockinet. and i’m sure i’ll be relishing your final photos long before mine is complete. knit on!

  40. While I personally LOVE traditional patterns, I try to remember that sometimes items were constructed in a particular way due to issues that we might not be aware of. I myself always struggle with actually sewing up my sweaters after I am done knitting them (I have two sitting in bags waiting to be put together- argh…), so knitting in the round is appealing and practical.
    If patterns and construction techniques never evolved, we wouldn’t have a Bohus sweater, would we?

  41. Hi Steph,
    I haven’t read all the comments, so this is probably repetitive, but…
    I personally like to know what all the original techniques were and then make my own choices from there. Interesting about this one…I have heard of the other way around, knitting the body in the round and then doing the yoke back and forth (so as to avoide steeking for armholes), but why on earth this way??? I wonder if it was for the same reason a friend of mine once told me she hated to wear yoke sweaters: “They bulge in front and back and just look like a tube! There’s no “shape” at the sides!” Perhaps using an EZ “Phoney Seam” would do the trick? Or some other phoney seam, like a purl stitch at the sides?
    Everyone has different knitting tastes, and since you have no Bohus “boss” paying you to knit to her specifications, heck, knit it how you want! But thank you for telling us what the original directions were and then noting your modifications…it passes on “tradition”, but then lets everyone else decide for themselves what they would do.

  42. I am imagining trying to see those tiny stitches as you try to mattress-stitch that thing up perfectly…Not that you couldn’t, but I think I’d bo blind in the process, and get sick of it halfway through. I’m a big fan of knitting sweaters in the round myself. I’m a nursing student, and doing things just because they are tradition or ‘what we have always done’ always makes me a bit nervous.

  43. There’s something to be said for historical accuracy, but unless you’re going to some sort of Historical Sweater Re-enactment Society event, who’s going to know or care if you seam or knit in the round? Probably just you. If working in the round works for you, do it. Seems to me that a very wise woman once said that there are no knitting police, you know. I hate sewing though, so I might be a little biased.
    Of course, after my first day of work in a yarn shop, I’ve learned that I’m not as smart as I thought I was, so you might want to take my opinion with a block of salt.

  44. I am certainly not the caliber of knitter that you are, but you brought up some interesting points for seams in the heavier Fair Isle and Norwegian sweaters that might actually apply to this much lighter weight sweater – but for different reasons. Confused yet? If the heavier sweaters need the seam to – in essence – control stretch. Don’t they (the seams), at the same time control the shape of the body of the sweater? So, if the seam does somewhat control the shape of the sweater, doesn’t removing it then change the shape? I am only talking about sweathers originally designed to have seams. I would think that with the lighter weight yarn you would get more of a balloon effect from the body, without the seam to control the body shape. Just an opinion. As I accuse my husband all the time -don’t you think that you over-thought that problem, dear?

  45. On a sweater this light, you can surely do it in the round (and from the bottom up, if you wanted), which, as someone said about the Bohus co-op, probably wasn’t done because skilled knitters knit the yokes, and less skilled knitters worked the bodies and sleeves.
    But to make it fold more readily, you might want to do a single purl stitch where each seam would be, and if you’re doing the arms in the round, a single purl stitch done the same way. Keep a marker before the purl stitch, though, or you’ll whiz right by it.
    That stitch can also make all your blocking easier, because it provides a visual check on getting everything centered and remeasured and pinned out.

  46. whoa-some poltergeist is messing with your comments today, Steph!
    I dislike assembling and sewing seams myself; therefore I am aligning myself with the commenters(in the majority, looks like) who say go seamless, if you are so inclined. Also think that knitting historians will forgive you!
    And Lene- you are so right about Hans Anderson vs. Disney and the little Mermaid! Don’t even get me started on what they did to Pooh. grrrrrrrrrr…..

  47. Rams, you’re home! Happy sigh. We’ve missed you.
    Steph, I find it enormously amusing that you go to the trouble of converting a perfectly good pattern for a yoga mat bag Knit In The Round to back and forth, and here you are taking a perfectly good Back and Forth pattern and converting it to knit in the round. You’re quite the complex little egg, my friend.

  48. Every tradition has a starting place — a place where a new idea broke from existing tradition, and created something new. So tradition is largely a matter of perspective. I say knit the sweater the way you clearly want to — I don’t think for a garment as light as this you will *need* seams for structural integrity, and if it will make it that much easier for you to complete the project and share its beauty with the world, go for it!

  49. I’d have to say, knit it in the round. It’s always a nuisance to be carrying 3/4 of a sweater around while you knit that last sleeve, but what a drag it would be to be knitting the front with the completed back flapping around.

  50. It’s probably not a sufficiently weighty decision to merit much thought. I think you have enough reasons to justify doing it in the round. We’re not likely to lose techniques even from these historical patterns, in my view, because for every person who doesn’t like seaming, there is someone who does. (Or maybe that’s “For every 12 people who don’t like seaming, there’s one person who does.”)

  51. Personally, I think that seams in a lightweight sweater give it a better shape. When I did a Bohus in lambswool and angora I found the fabric clingy, the seams help it maintain some integrity. But htese are subtle things, I’m sure whatever you do will be just fine. Oh, and tradition – its good to do something the traditional way once, so you appreciate what it’s all about, but after that go ahead and make it your own.

  52. WWEZD? Whatever way pleased her the most. If she were making a sweater for someone who preferred seams, she would put in a phoney seam. If not, then not. (You could always unswallow your tongue, call Meg back, and ask her.)
    What I see at Zimmermania is knitter after knitter having fun knitting the whole thing in the round and going on to knit tons more sweaters because they enjoyed the process so much. Sounds like the bandwagon to jump onto (but the twisted purls as a blocking aid sound very practical as well).

  53. I’m a historian who knits, so I do think about these things as well. Here’s my two cents: since most of what we know about the past in the first place is dynamic, and constantly changing based on the concerns of the observer anyway, the “traditional” pattern probably only represents one version, or one moment in that pattern’s evolution. Like a number of the other posters, I think it’s important to know about the traditional techniques and how and why they were done, but that doesn’t mean that they didn’t shift then, or that altering them now would somehow be “inauthentic.” Then again, I also hate seams, so make of that what you will.
    On a more practical note, I’ve done a couple of non-steeked Dales in the round, and they’ve held up pretty well. But most of them were for toddlers, so again, make of that what you will …

  54. Hi Stephanie,
    Today we are drowning in a tsunami of information, ideas and opinions. The Internet alone offers more of this cyber-flotsam and jetsam in a day than any of us can absorb in a lifetime, and I can’t imagine much of it will make it into the history books. In that context, the information we have about the past is fairly scant and we need to treasure it. Dare I say, hang onto it for dear life.
    But do we need to replicate it? What’s your motive: Do you want to be an archival purist, or do you just want something beautiful to wear when you’re cold? I like reading about the lives of pioneer families, but I don’t want to beat my clothes on a rock to get them clean, just to preserve a slice of history.
    I say knit it in the round. Here’s what Eunny says about a faux seam:
    “I like my seamless knits to have a little faux seam for structure and appearance – with most knits, I like a naturally-recessive purl column.”
    That seams (hah!) like a great idea with something so gorgeous and fine.

  55. What they said. Or what most of them said, anyway, since I haven’t read them all. Certainly what rams and Meredith said. I’m all for understanding and respecting and preserving tradition, but there is such a thing as taking purism too far, especially in a case like this where you are making a garment for your own personal use and pleasure and not inflicting potentially dangerous heresy on anyone else.
    Furthermore, I’m not so sure I buy into the whole seams-for-structure thing. With one or two exceptions early on (when as I see it now I didn’t “know better”), I make EVERYTHING in the round, fully fashioned, and I’ve never haad any problems with stability or lack thereof – not even in Arans, not even in really BIG and really HEAVY Arans, dripping with thick cables and made to fit a really BIG man; in my experience they hold up, and keep their shape, just fine, as long as they’re well designed and well proportioned to begin with. I think with Mary Thomas (as well as EZ, of course) that the miracle of knitting is that it permits you to create the fabric and the garment at the same time; show me another medium that can clothe a cylindrical form with the same efficency! The human body is just such a cylindrical form, and I think there’s a poetical rightness to fashioning our sweaters in our own image, where we can, because we can. So go you and make your Bohus in the round, not because anybody says you should or shouldn’t, but because it’s right and it’s what you want (not necessarily in that order), and because the process will satisfy you and the results will please you.

  56. Your questions are intriguing, but I find your stranding even more intriguing. How many stitches do you work before twisting the yarn? Do you use different rules for floats for sweaters and, say, mittens or baby clothes? I’m doing some mittens right now that made me swear I’ll never again do fair isle with more than three stitch floats.

  57. We who live in glass houses may not throw rocks, Steph. Calling you “overly focussed” would definitely be the pot calling the kettle black, so I shall not so do.
    You could try my method: First, I will do exactly what the pattern said to do because I’m maintaining the art of the designer. Then, I will not like something about it (usually that I think it’s “overly complicated” or “taking too long”), rip it out, and start over my way.
    THEN I discover that ‘my way’ doesn’t work for one or a thousand reasons, tear it out again, start over using a second, similar pattern for reference but really just doing my own thing again. This also does not work. Tear it back again, sit down with a pencil and my arsenal of cuss words, write down what I think I’m going to do, cuss, cross out, write, cuss, cross out, write, cuss, cross out, write AND THEN?
    One last cuss and I go back to the pattern. Humbly. And refusing to acknowledge that I ever left it. Except that I’m just going to change this one itty-bitty thing over here because it’s too >>fussy<<…

  58. If it’s authenticity you want, go with seams. Otherwise, I’d do the EZ way. Nice pun, eh?
    About your knitting style… I’ve heard lots of people say that they knit with one needle under their arm but I’ve never seen it done. How does that work?? Does most of the motion happen with your left needle? I assume it’s Continental knitting? Just curious.

  59. Do what makes you happy.
    (And am I the only one willing to admit that part of my motivation to vote for breaking with tradition is the potential hilarity that may ensue as you continue?)

  60. Five Answers:
    1) No! Do you honestly think that the knitters who first contemplated these sweaters thought about tradition–or warmth, function and efficiency, and perhaps a better way to get there.
    2) Can’t ever really lose history….can make new history!
    3) My “in the round sweaters” from the 80’s and 90’s look way better today than my seamed sweaters. (None are Aran, however, I have an Aran, from Ireland, that is seamless. Must have been a radical knitter….)
    4) Yes! And Yes!
    HTH!

  61. I’m voting for recognizing the tradition, thumbing your nose at it, knitting the body in the round and possibly adding a phoney seam.
    Since I’ve never worn out a sweater, that whole discussion seams irrelevant to me.

  62. My opinion – knowing the tradition is important. Knowing Why the tradition – nice if you can figure it out. Doing it exactly as it’s always been done – not important. We are human, we change things, often for worse, sometimes for better.
    It’s a sweater! Do it as it’s best for you. Unless it’s a thesis, then call it research.
    (I may have repeated others. I’ll go back and read the comments now.)

  63. I teach classes and have seen too many beautiful items ruined by ugly seams! Anytime you can bypass them and knit it the round, I say go for it!

  64. First of all, it’s absolutely gorgeous!
    Secondly, once it’s completed and you’re wearing it, will it really matter whether it has seams or not? Will anyone other than you (and some stickler knitter who comes and insists on feeling up your sweater — okay, that sounds worse than I mean it!) know you changed the pattern?
    If it’s not absolutely necessary for the structure of the sweater (as in those arans that you mentioned), then do what you want.
    I mean, heck, you’re already planning on modifications anyway, so you’ll be ‘breaking tradition’ already. A couple of seams aren’t going to make that any worse or better. 🙂

  65. AS’ fishermen’s sweaters are based on old designs that were engineered to wear like iron, and they’re seamless. I can personally attest to Stornoway’s hardiness; my BIL has worn his practically non-stop for the last four years and it looks like new.
    I don’t necessarily believe that seams = strength, particularly for a lightweight Bohus sweater.

  66. Esprit d’escalier – forgot to say, what Disney did to Pooh and the Little Mermaid is horrendous enough, but more offensive still is what they did to Mary Poppins. Sheesh – every time I think of it I can feel Bruno Bettelheim (not to mention Milne, Travers and Andersen) rolling in his grave; hell, I’m tempted to roll over in mine, and I haven’t even got one yet.
    But in a way this underlines what everyone has said about doing the Bohus seamlessly if you so desire. The bastardizations mentioned above are offensive because they are violations of the spirit and the character of the original; what you are proposing to do to the Bohus is completely different from that. Merely by raising and discussing the question you are treating the Bohus tradition with the respect it deserves. Way more than Disney ever did or would.
    (Eeek – imagine the Disney version of a Bohus sweater. Excuse me, I think I have to go roll in my grave again.)

  67. Do what makes you happy.
    (And am I the only one willing to admit that part of my motivation to vote for breaking with tradition is the potential hilarity that may ensue as you continue?)

  68. 1. not the least bit important
    2. no. we have books, now. tradition can be preserved in writing, we don’t have to act it out.
    3. no
    4. no
    5. no. It is your job to think about this stuff. And — some of us just can’t help thinking about the WHY of everything…. Which is good — nothing would ever improve, if everyone just kept doing everything exactly the way they were taught…….

  69. Personally, I think that seams in a lightweight sweater give it a better shape. When I did a Bohus in lambswool and angora I found the fabric clingy, the seams help it maintain some integrity. But these are subtle things, I’m sure whatever you do will be just fine. Oh, and tradition – it’s good to do something the traditional way once, so you appreciate what it’s all about, but after that go ahead and make it your own.

  70. I am all for circular knitting! I hate seaming with a passion. So long as it doesn’t drasticly change the sweater, I say go for it!
    Besides, you could always do another Bohus sweater for someone special if it is that important to carry on the tradition of the piece. Just wait until you don’t need the “idiot knitting”

  71. When I knit my Bohus, I did the whole thing in the round. I knew at the time that historically they were knit flat and seamed, but I did it in the round anyway. My thinking was, the Bohus sweaters were designed in the thirties/forties/fifties back when sweaters were much more structured and seams would aid that. These days sweaters are much more slouchy and comfortable, so I figured, why bother with the seams?
    As for history, everything always changes. That’s the point of it. I feel bad when the pre-change whatever wasn’t well documented (like, oh, most of knitting’s history, particularly at the peasant level), but I never wish things had stayed the way they were. (No knitting my own socks while hauling peat to keep me warm, thanks anyway.) So by changing things, you’re keeping with tradition.
    Did that make sense?

  72. While I would not generally consider myself worthy to comment on a sweater of this magnitude, there is one topic in this world about which I could be called an expert and that is overthinking things so here goes.
    1. In nearly ever case, I am an advocate of not monkeying with tradition. To my way of thinking, if there is a method that has consistenly provided excellent results for generations and generations, there is no reason to change it. In this case, though, knitting in the round has a damn fine track record, too.
    2. I think there are ways to preserve and honor tradition that do not require straight needles.
    3. I would agree that sometimes seams are important for structure and they have their place. I don’t think this sweater (from what I know of it) while be degraded in any way by knitting it without seams.
    4. Tradition would be the only other reason. And as far as I can tell, modifying a pattern to suit the knitters needs is as much a knitting tradition as seams.
    5. I always encourage overthinking. When I am not thinking to hard about the matter at hand, there is a little voice in the back of my head overthinking the fact that I am being negligent and not overthinking. I’m guessing there is a clinical definition for this but I choose to call it thoroughness.
    When it’s all said and done, if you decide to knit it in the round (and I think I would) and feel like you have betrayed the historical integrity of the Bohus, you can claim you weren’t going for the traditional look but instead decided to knit in the round and you are quite pleased with your Faux-hus sweater.

  73. Do what you want with your knitting — why knit otherwise in the modern world? Would you be making a bohus sweater if you thought it was ugly just to do something traditional?

  74. I think it is important that traditional patterns and methods be preserved. It is also good to make them in the traditional way at least once. That does not mean that you don’t have the right to change and adapt patterns to suit you. Do what you want to do. It is your knitting.
    I think that if it can only be done in the historical manner, we run the risk of losing it entirely. I would much rather see modern interpretations than nothing at all. A modern version may be the only exposure someone has to a traditional garment. It may be a gateway to the past.

  75. I think it’s the tools. Back when the Bohus sweaters were made, the circular needles were awful. The cable had spiral metal wires that pulled loose and tore things. I have a few of these that I inherited and wouldn’t trust it even as a stitch holder. Now that there are better tools available, why not use them?
    I used to own a real Bohus sweater that I got at a garage sale, and have no clue as to what other reason it wouldn’t be knit in the round.

  76. I think it’s the tools. Back when the Bohus sweaters were made, the circular needles were awful. The cable had spiral metal wires that pulled loose and tore things. I have a few of these that I inherited and wouldn’t trust one even as a stitch holder. Now that there are better tools available, why not use them?
    I used to own a real Bohus sweater that I got at a garage sale, and have no clue as to what other reason it wouldn’t be knit in the round.

  77. No; no; don’t know; only if you enjoy serwing seams; yes, you will do as you wish in the end and after all, you have a wealth of experience to guide you in your decision. BTW, the yoke is lovely. I bet you can’t wait to actually WEAR the sweater. Please don’t forget to show us the FO 😉

  78. Apologies for breaking the blog… I messed up large when updating the main configuration file in an attempt to increase security against evil spammers.

  79. I want to just hold it in my hands, turning it over and over, going ooh ahh and stroking the wool gently and admiring it in person along with all those gorgeous pictures. Beautiful job! Just stunning.

  80. Can’t you just put a life-line in it, try it one way and if it’s not so great, go back to the life line and try it the other?
    Very beautiful sweater.
    On the artwork one (since I’m commenting anyway), did you notice that your geometric work has a similar palette to your yarn choices? I think it just might be that you like those colors. Didn’t you have a skein of STR in the Harlot colorway that was real similar?

  81. It’s interesting that there is a “cuss” in the middle of “focussed.”
    Well, I think so, anyway.

  82. 1. Not very.
    2. I think there are many ways to skin a cat, and they can all become traditions.
    3. It depends on the sweater, as you’re about to point out.
    4. They could be decorative (not the case here, obviously). They could make a given sweater hang better on a given body.
    5. Yes.

  83. 1. It’s the ens result that counts
    2. No, it’s already in place.
    3. Don’t have enough experience to give a good answer
    4. Nope
    5. You’re just being yourself.
    6. Your Bohus is gorgeous:)

  84. 1. It’s the end result that counts
    2. No, it’s already in place.
    3. Don’t have enough experience
    4. Nope
    5. You’re just being yourself.
    6. Your Bohus is gorgeous:)

  85. There are no knitting police, but… I’m afraid I have to side with Lene on this one. After all, is it REALLY so much skin off your nose to cave and do it the traditional way? And I managed one whole pattern repeat of Frost Flowers…whew! (of course, it’s only 78 stitches wide…)

  86. There are no knitting police, but… I’m afraid I have to side with Lene on this one. After all, is it REALLY so much skin off your nose to cave and do it the traditional way? And I managed one whole pattern repeat of Frost Flowers…whew! (of course, it’s only 78 stitches wide…)

  87. Seams are for sewers not knitters.
    Sweaters that are made in pieces and sewn together are the product of the modern sewing pattern industry and not really traditional. It makes no sense to me that something made in one piece would be of a weaker construction than something sewn together. Sweaters (and just about anything else that can be) are knit in the round and steeked because the knitters that came before us were practical people who wouldn’t add unnecessary steps like seams.
    Unless you are re-enacting some sort of historical event and the sweater construction would not be “period” I say do as you please. The knitters of the past would be proud of you for doing tradition one better.

  88. 1. When I was in high school algebra, they always made us do problems the hard and long way first so that we would know the intricacies of how everything went together and why. Then they taught us the shortcut easy way so that we could be more efficient, but still get the same result. It’s important to know the traditional way and why one goes about doing something the traditional way, but if you are going to get the same result in another way and the other way makes you happier, then go for it.
    2. Again, you already know and understand the historical method. It’s okay to change the way in which you execute a historical pattern – otherwise knitly evolution would never happen. As long as we remember and pass along the old knowledge with the new, nothing is lost.
    3. & 4. This, I do not know. It is a skosh beyond my knitly experience.
    5. Are you over-thinking this? Probably. Sometimes it’s best to go with your instincts. Of course, I either tend to agonize over a design until it’s just right or else throw something together and knit it up post haste. When I do the first, the project may not ever get knitted. When I do the latter, I almost invariably make horrendous mistakes.

  89. Traditions are starting points. By putting our own interpretation on the past, we start new traditions. Knit it in the round!

  90. As we all do, I have opinions which I’m willing to share. But that’s all they are, opinions. So here goes.
    I’m all for traditions but, if we always followed them, we would all still be wearing animal skins. the Bohus patterns themselves were a departure from tradition when they first appeared. If you want to make an item following tradition, for fun or another reason, go for it. If you just want to knit something to wear and love, knit it any way you want. I personally hate sewing up seams and knit in the round whenever possible.
    Losing all knowledge of our history would be a horrible loss indeed. But there is a big difference in not knowing how things were done and feeling that we always have to do it the same way it was done before. Know how it was done, admire it, but don’t worry about changing it if it works better for you today, our ancestors didn’t.
    I’ve never noticed a real difference in length of wear between a sweater with or without seams. Mostly, if one thing wears quicker than another, I can more often track the problem to the fiber or gauge used.
    Seams can help the stucture of the garment. I’ve found that they can have a huge effect on the way some sweaters hang. I’ve also found that Elizabeth Zimmermann’s fake seams usually solve the problem for me.
    In my opinion, and given the lives of the women in our past, they would have jumped at the chance to produce the same garments with less work and in a shorter time, if they had access to the tools that we have now.

  91. I’ve not read the other comments, but what about a false seam? It adds some structure (since you seem to be mildly concerned — else you’d not have mentioned it )but it really means adding one stitch to each side where the seam WOULD be, then dropping the stitch at the end and using a crochet hook?
    Also, it’s so nice how the sweater matches exactly the blanket it’s on for the photos. I’m a big fan of not branching out. 🙂

  92. It being a lightweight sweater, I think seamless it a good way to go. I have three sweaters I knit entirely in the round, all worsted weight, and they’re holding up perfectly.
    The history won’t be lost just because you choose not to follow its dictates precisely – the history is still recorded, and the reasoning behind it may be something we don’t consider today(like crap-o-licious circ. needles, as Mary Lou said)I think that especially since, historically speaking, knitting tends to be such a practical application of art, any personal innovations add to the history rather than obliterate it. (Can’t you hear them in the 24th century, “At first, Bohus sweaters were knit round for the yoke, then seamed through the body, but innovative knitters in the early 21st century began to knit entirely in the round…”)

  93. Can I make a comment wholly unrelated to knitting? Your analogy about the closet & the doors is the best I think I’ve ever heard for a professional to use to help a non-professional understand servers and bandwidth. Seriously! I now use it all the time and I make sure to credit you. There are several people down here in Atlanta GA who know who you are but don’t have the first clue about knitting!! Thanks for helping those of us who struggle with words!!

  94. I’d go with what make you happy.
    On the other hand, I sometimes find that my gauge is a touch different between flat St st and circular St st since it the circular has no purl sts – which can have a different tension than the knit ones for some knitters. JMHO.

  95. Thatis beautiful. Appliance colors be damned, I love it. My familys’ tradition is to change things up completely every 2-3 years. I think this is because my mom gets bored. So my feeling is that as long as the reason for the tradition is understood, then change is fine.

  96. QUOTE: knit the thing, because seriously, this is not a huge issue
    UNQUOTE.
    What you said.
    (See? I’m easy to get along with.)
    (I’m easy with which to get along?)
    (I’m easy to whom getting along?)
    (Screw it.)

  97. QUOTE: knit the thing, because seriously, this is not a huge issue
    UNQUOTE.
    What you said.
    (See? I’m easy to get along with.)
    (I’m easy with which to get along?)
    (I’m easy to whom getting along?)
    (Screw it.)

  98. Go with what you want. Yes, seams are needed to add structure to some knits, but I don’t feel that Bohus sweaters in that yarn need them. If it were one of the “older” Bohus designs using all wool, and that not merino, I might think differently. Make your modifications and be happy with your Guld. Make it your own.
    I’m usually one who doesn’t mess with tradition, but I don’t think you need to do that now. Someone above commented that if you were making it for a museum, as a reproduction, then you stick unfailingly to tradition. Is chez Harlot a museum? How would Joe feel about that???

  99. Ooops. Never try to be funny on a Friday when you’re home sick.
    (Or sick, home.)
    STOP IT!!!
    I’m sorry for the double post, Uncle Ken.

  100. And for the record I too, HATEHATEHATE Disney Pooh! I was raised on Pooh as my father was before me and it is a sacred text in my family. One more comment – is it always about making knitting easier/more convenient/more in line with what WE want?? If that were true, I would never in 6 billion years have attempted Frost Flowers.

  101. My question to you is, “Are you doing a study of structure or are you knitting yourself a sweater?” It seems to me that if you are doing a study of Bohus structure, then obviously, you are going to want to do this the traditional way, but if you are knitting for the joy of knitting, then do it the way that makes you happiest. Lots of mindless stocking stitch? No seams? Seems to me like the decision is already made. And since you’re asking, I give you permission to do it the way you want to. (Not that you need MY permission) 😎

  102. You have already said:
    “Secondly, I’m planning a couple of changes that would be easier to knit in if I were working in the round, and it would make it real “idiot knitting” if I didn’t even have to turn at the end of a row…”
    You are already changing it… go for seamless!!!
    LOVE the yoke. It makes me want to order a kit!!
    Vicki

  103. ****If the definition of Bohus includes the specific methods you use to get a Bohus then you will end up with a Bohus-like sweater if you knit in the round. Big Deal. Just send us the directions when you’re through.

  104. I was about to leave a ‘poor Ken’ comment about how much work it is keeping you out of trouble until I read his comment.
    Nevermind.
    Although I do think in general he deserves many pork chop dinners cooked in your home for keeping this thing alive.

  105. I must comment on the needle-held-under-the arm. My Mother-in-Law, a dear Dutch woman, knits this way and I had never heard of any one else holding the needles like this. She tucks the left needle in-between her arm and body and moves the right one. The problem is that she cannot knit with short needles or circulars, as they are not long enough to tuck so it makes it difficult for her to borrow my stuff when she comes to visit.
    As for the sweater, I would definitely leave out the seams.

  106. I think a very important part of the history of knitting is the capacity of knitters and the craft itself to evolve. Someone took a big step away from tradition to invent cabling. Someone else took a big step to knit with two colors. The Bohus tradition is one of invention, since it was created quite recently for a specific purpose. If you’re knitting with nice springy wool, knitting in the round should hold up just as well as a seamed sweater (in fact my St. Brigid is coming apart at the seams and I am going to have to scavenge through The Stash Vault for the leftover yarn and restitch it soon).

  107. Traditions are meant to be honored, not slavishly followed. If it doesn’t suit you, don’t do it. I hate to sew seams myself. As long as you considered the traditional method before striking out on your own, history is being remembered and not forgotten.
    As to whether the seams help it wear better, I have no clue. A heavy sweater may need them for structure, but other than that, I can’t see why it matters.
    Part of the joy, the design process, the fun of it all is obsessing over the details. Whether you do this more or less than other folks is beside the point – this is what makes it yours!
    And it will be beautiful no matter what you decide, because it is beautiful already!

  108. Only if you want to… do any of the above. I think the thing that makes the Bohus ‘Bohussy’ is the yoke and you’ve done that.

  109. I think that as long as the written pattern exists, the history and heritage of the garment is safe, and as long as we are knitting for ourselves and not trying to market something as ‘authentic’ we are perfectly justified in making it the way we want to!

  110. In my defense, I’d like to note that I wouldn’t have touched the site, and wouldn’t have been rushed enough not to back up the master config file first, if I wasn’t trying to solve the throttling issue, Miss Shmarty-pants Rachel H… 😉

  111. 1. I think you should stick with tradition if it works for you. My friend always say, “Knitting is a hobby. Do what you want.”
    2. Yes, we may lose some of that history; but there is always someone who is sentimental for the old days and will keep the tradition alive somehow. Hopefully they will write a book or teach a seminar.
    3. I have been a seamstress for about 15 years and have only been knitting for the last two years. I know the seam is where the garment tends to wear most. If you can avoid it and still have shaping, you should. That’s the beauty of knitting! Need a dart? Use a short row. Have a garment that goes all the way around your body? Knit it circularly. As a sewer, let me tell you that the challenge of a garment is to get a two-dimensional piece of fabric to fit a three-dimensional body. If you can get fit into the fabric itself – that’s powerful!
    4. If your garment needs more structure, try knitting a more dense fabric. Or you could “tape it.” Tape is something us seamstress do to add strength and help tweak the shape of sewn garments. There are stretchy knit tapes that you may see sewn into your store-bought t-shirts or sweaters. These could be sewn into your knitted garment in the shoulders and neckline.

  112. As for the sweater, if the seams aren’t needed for structure then knit in the round. Way more mindless. As for the closet analogy, maybe a refrigerator analogy would serve better now. After all you have teenagers in the house, you understand about throttling access to the door being opened and closed too often. Mainly because there’s no “real food” in the fridge.

  113. You know the history of the technique, so I say feel free to deviate from that. You can still pass on the knowledge without practicing it. I mean, we no longer practice slavery, but we have the knowledge to pass on to future generations. A depressing example, yes, but it’s all I could think of in my stuffy and sniffly state.
    I also think that if the seams were so important, there would be more of them in the pattern. The finished garment will probably be feather-light (so far as sweaters go), so it’s not like there will be massive weight pulling it down. Most of the sweater patterns I’ve seen knit from the top down are not split and seamed after breaking for the arms, so I don’t think you’ve much to worry about there (in the interest of full disclosure, I’ve not knit many sweaters, but I’ve read a whole bunch of sweater patterns, so I may not be giving you the best advice here).
    As for the over-thinking part, I’d have to say yes about over-thinking the history part and no to the knitting part. You want your sweater to be partly a reflection of yourself, and you can’t be too hasty when personalizing a pattern. Don’t feel badly about this…I over-analyze things, too. It’s a gift and a curse.

  114. Five answer to five questions:
    1. If a pattern has been chosen because it falls into a certain tradition, then sticking to said tradiaiton would be quite important to me. I would want to “knit true” to the tradition, and the tradition would be a big part of why I was knitting that project. E.g. I’d knit an Aran sweater in as traditional methods as I can, even though I’ve made other cabled items in the past and not thought about the tradition at all.
    2. I do worry about the changing of traditions importances over time, but I also think that re-enactment and historical experimentation are tremedously a) fun (yes, I’m that geeky) and b) enlightening. Also, there is a pesky voice at the back of my mind that says changing things to suit one’s needs is not destroying the history of the tradition, but adding to it…
    3. Seams are a sticky issue. They can be a garment’s point of greatest strenght, or a huge point of weakness. They’re strange things. I think in this case it’s more important to think about seams in regards too the garment’s fit during wear as opposed to wear over time.
    4. See #3 above: are you going to be happy with the fit of the sweater if it has no seams, or will seaming allow for rgeater shape through the body/arms/etc?
    5. I don’t think you’re thinking about this issue “too much”, but eventually you are just goign to have to make up your mind and knit it! And you’ll probably be happier knitting than not knitting, so a decision sooner than later will most likely be better, too 🙂
    p.s. The yoke looks gorgeous!!

  115. You know the history of the technique, so I say feel free to deviate from that. You can still pass on the knowledge without practicing it. I mean, we no longer practice slavery, but we have the knowledge to pass on to future generations. A depressing example, yes, but it’s all I could think of in my stuffy and sniffly state.
    I also think that if the seams were so important, there would be more of them in the pattern. The finished garment will probably be feather-light (so far as sweaters go), so it’s not like there will be massive weight pulling it down. Most of the sweater patterns I’ve seen knit from the top down are not split and seamed after breaking for the arms, so I don’t think you’ve much to worry about there (in the interest of full disclosure, I’ve not knit many sweaters, but I’ve read a whole bunch of sweater patterns, so I may not be giving you the best advice here).
    As for the over-thinking part, I’d have to say yes about over-thinking the history part and no to the knitting part. You want your sweater to be partly a reflection of yourself, and you can’t be too hasty when personalizing a pattern. Don’t feel badly about this…I over-analyze things, too. It’s a gift and a curse.

  116. Too true about the perception of temperature. Today the wind chill in the Chicago area went above 0° F (that’s -17.8°C) for the first time in about 10 days & everyone feels like it’s a heat wave! The actual air temp actually has reached 15° F (-9.4°C) today – it really does feel kinda warm. The weather folk have been telling us we’re lucky we didn’t get hit with this front 2 or 3 weeks ago – with the shorter days (& lower light levels), the temps would’ve dropped to about -20° F (-28.9°C). I remember standing on an elevated platform waiting for an El to take me to work one day about 20 years ago when the temp was about -26°F (-32.2°C). Several layers of wool & down kept me safe but it was hard to move with all those clothes! I am very, very impressed with the beauty of the WRONG side of you yoke! So even & smooth looking!

  117. Too true about the perception of temperature. Today the wind chill in the Chicago area went above 0° F (that’s -17.8°C) for the first time in about 10 days & everyone feels like it’s a heat wave! The actual air temp actually has reached 15° F (-9.4°C) today – it really does feel kinda warm. The weather folk have been telling us we’re lucky we didn’t get hit with this front 2 or 3 weeks ago – with the shorter days (& lower light levels), the temps would’ve dropped to about -20° F (-28.9°C). I remember standing on an elevated platform waiting for an El to take me to work one day about 20 years ago when the temp was about -26°F (-32.2°C). Several layers of wool & down kept me safe but it was hard to move with all those clothes! I am very, very impressed with the beauty of the WRONG side of you yoke! So even & smooth looking!

  118. I would love to see a picture with you knitting holding the needle under your arm. The woman who taught me to knit a zillion years ago knitted that way and now that I keep getting tendonitis of the elbow due to my excessive knitting and also had to have thumb surgery (same reason of course)I have tried to knit that way but couldn’t seem to figure it out. A picture would be great..oh and knit the sweater the way YOU want, just because you can!

  119. I think it IS tradition in knitting to adapt things to suit a new tool or idea. Unless you’re knitting the sweater to have an honest to goodness Bohus replica (in which case you wouldn’t alter the pattern one single stitch), knit it how you want.

  120. Five answer to five questions:
    1. If a pattern has been chosen because it falls into a certain tradition, then sticking to said tradiaiton would be quite important to me. I would want to “knit true” to the tradition, and the tradition would be a big part of why I was knitting that project. E.g. I’d knit an Aran sweater in as traditional methods as I can, even though I’ve made other cabled items in the past and not thought about the tradition at all.
    2. I do worry about the changing of traditions importances over time, but I also think that re-enactment and historical experimentation are tremedously a) fun (yes, I’m that geeky) and b) enlightening. Also, there is a pesky voice at the back of my mind that says changing things to suit one’s needs is not destroying the history of the tradition, but adding to it…
    3. Seams are a sticky issue. They can be a garment’s point of greatest strenght, or a huge point of weakness. They’re strange things. I think in this case it’s more important to think about seams in regards too the garment’s fit during wear as opposed to wear over time.
    4. See #3 above: are you going to be happy with the fit of the sweater if it has no seams, or will seaming allow for rgeater shape through the body/arms/etc?
    5. I don’t think you’re thinking about this issue “too much”, but eventually you are just goign to have to make up your mind and knit it! And you’ll probably be happier knitting than not knitting, so a decision sooner than later will most likely be better, too 🙂
    p.s. The yoke looks gorgeous!!

  121. I’ll sew up your sideseams for ya baby, ya know I would.
    It’s just that long 5WEEK holiday I’m going on is well…………. SO very long
    And oh so hot. And I know you will be done knitting it in a day or so, to wait for 4 weeks in freezing cold temp. just so I could sew it up.I just couldn’t do that to you, (make you wait that long) Of course when I get back I could do it but it WILL BE SPRING THEN.
    it’s more of a winter sweater right.

  122. I’ll sew up your sideseams for ya baby, ya know I would.
    It’s just that long 5WEEK holiday I’m going on is well…………. SO very long
    And oh so hot. And I know you will be done knitting it in a day or so, to wait for 4 weeks in freezing cold temp. just so I could sew it up.I just couldn’t do that to you, (make you wait that long) Of course when I get back I could do it but it WILL BE SPRING THEN.
    it’s more of a winter sweater right.

  123. I’ll sew up your sideseams for ya baby, ya know I would.
    It’s just that long 5WEEK holiday I’m going on is well…………. SO very long
    And oh so hot. And I know you will be done knitting it in a day or so, to wait for 4 weeks in freezing cold temp. just so I could sew it up.I just couldn’t do that to you, (make you wait that long) Of course when I get back I could do it but it WILL BE SPRING THEN.
    it’s more of a winter sweater right.

  124. I’ll sew up your sideseams for ya baby, ya know I would.
    It’s just that long 5WEEK holiday I’m going on is well…………. SO very long
    And oh so hot. And I know you will be done knitting it in a day or so, to wait for 4 weeks in freezing cold temp. just so I could sew it up.I just couldn’t do that to you, (make you wait that long) Of course when I get back I could do it but it WILL BE SPRING THEN.
    it’s more of a winter sweater right.

  125. I’ll sew up your sideseams for ya baby, ya know I would.
    It’s just that long 5WEEK holiday I’m going on is well…………. SO very long
    And oh so hot. And I know you will be done knitting it in a day or so, to wait for 4 weeks in freezing cold temp. just so I could sew it up.I just couldn’t do that to you, (make you wait that long) Of course when I get back I could do it but it WILL BE SPRING THEN.
    it’s more of a winter sweater right.

  126. I would go with the seamless knitting that you seem to be leaning towards… That’s what I would consider doing if I was knitting the Bohus sweater. My very first sweater was knit from the neck down and I loved that sweater!! Wonderful work on the Bohus so far – can’t wait to see the progression of it – thank you so much for sharing all the pictures with us!

  127. Tradition is good, and a history to a thing is beautiful. My Grandmother taught me many things, and that I still do those things honors that tradition. My Grandmother also taught me to innovate and make something my own; if you are going to do something, make your mark on it. Change is individuality, and individuality is good.
    I have a son with Autism and we deal with many sensory issues. If you ask him, and I tend to agree, seams are bad, uncomfortable, and should be done away with whenever possible. Not entirely applicable, but a good excuse.
    Someone already said also: don’t think, just knit. Although, the thinking and planning is half the fun, isn’t it?

  128. Well I could go on for pages about tradition and preservation (gotta love what a course on local endagered languages makes you realize), which I will spare you. And I’ve yet to get a hold of a sweater pattern that I like enough to fork out the horrendous sum of money for, so I can’t sya anything about that. HOWever, that yoke looks good. Like… really good. Whatever you decide will be super, I’m sure.

  129. That sweater is gorgeous. It actually gave me chills to look at — both the right and wrong sides.

  130. Too true about the perception of temperature. Today the wind chill in the Chicago area went above 0° F (that’s -17.8°C) for the first time in about 10 days & everyone feels like it’s a heat wave! The actual air temp actually has reached 15° F (-9.4°C) today – it really does feel kinda warm. The weather folk have been telling us we’re lucky we didn’t get hit with this front 2 or 3 weeks ago – with the shorter days (& lower light levels), the temps would’ve dropped to about -20° F (-28.9°C). I remember standing on an elevated platform waiting for an El to take me to work one day about 20 years ago when the temp was about -26°F (-32.2°C). Several layers of wool & down kept me safe but it was hard to move with all those clothes! I am very, very impressed with the beauty of the WRONG side of you yoke! So even & smooth looking!

  131. If it ain’t one thing, it’s another.
    Hey, when has history ever been static. History grows with us – just knit and add your stitch to the wonderful Bohus history!

  132. I’m intrigued by the way that you have a problem with changing one thing but not another. You blithely admit to planning some changes yet balk at another. And in the name of historical accuracy, no less.
    I mean, do you really believe that no seams will make the sweater wear out quicker? If so, why are you knitting Poor Joe’s Gansey (sigh) in the round- you wouldn’t put all that time into washing, spinning, plying, winding, planning and knitting it if that were really the case, would you?
    Do you believe that the Knitters Of Yore would not have changed their methods and instead stuck with the original pattern, even if the new way seemed like a better idea? What’s the worse that could happen? Night-time visitations by the spirits of Knitters Past shaking their skeins at you and howling about how you cheated?!
    (Actually I think the spectres would be more likely to want to fondle your stash and play with the ball winder)

  133. Steph–don’t forget–just because you’re an acknowledged knitting genius doesn’t mean that the same things don’t hold true that held true for you five years ago: we change patterns to make them your own. It’s not bungie jumping–messing with length and pattern doesn’t make it dangerous. A mistake–even an over-thought one is still a learning experience. Don’t fret about the questions–make the sweater your way, and gloat (or fail) at your success (or failure…) because that’s why we do it–sticks and string is humanity at it’s best (and worst:-)
    But I’m mostly comforting myself right now–my knitting is the only place I’m feeling safe. Don’t take away that safety with too much stress, darlin’–that way lies madness.

  134. Bohus knitting was not in the traditional mode, but rather haute couture, so the sweaters were designed to be worked in the dressmaking style with seams. It was also easier to have people of varying levels of expertise work on one garment. Since you aren’t making a museum piece for display, then work in the round and make it easier on yourself. I agree that the phony seam might be a good idea for blocking. Since I haven’t started my Bohus sweater yet, I’m looking forward to what you decide and how it works. Cold as your weather is, be thankful that you aren’t on the other side of the pond with 8 ft. (240cm) of snow, like Oswego, NY!

  135. You know, I’m all for tradition, but in this case, I’m with the first commenter. Knitting is a dynamic tradition and we make it our own by thinking the process through and making any changes we think will improve the process. While there haven’t been many changes throughout the history of knitting, where would we be without them? And I think that making thoughtful changes in our work is also what makes us better knitters.

  136. I think your shouldn’t worry about “changing history”. Just imagine some “knitting anthropologist” someday identify your sweater as from the “seamless period” of history; a period known for the knitters’ evolution towards circular knitting due to better tools. Straight needles are the evolutionary equivalent to the “club” whereas circulars are akin to “arrows and spears”. Okay, okay…I’ll stop with the caveman evolution comparisons. But….

  137. Tried posting this earlier, but it wouldn’t take. Hopefully this time it will…
    I say, you’re the one holding the needles, so it’s your choice. You’ve been looking forward to the “idiot knitting” of going round and round, and since that was at least part of the point of the sweater for you, it would be a shame to forgo it just because it’s always been done another way. I don’t think that in order to be respectful to the history of these garments, you need to construct them exactly as they’ve always been constructed. I think that you’re being very respectful in that you’re weighing all the options and choosing the one that best suits your needs for the garment and for the process. We knit for pleasure, and pleasure should definitely be one of the considerations taken when altering directions. Knit on and knit happy!
    (Beautiful, beautiful work, by the way. I’ve been hankering for Bohus ever since I saw the wristlets my mom did in Susanna’s class at Madrona.)

  138. stick with tradition? – No. Evolution is a vital force in the universe. The first person who put two sticks and yarn together – should we continue knitting that way?? Of course not. Just don’t call your creation a replica or authentic. Call it a variation or inspired by.
    will we lose that history? No, documentation is everywhere in this modern age. Starting maybe around the year 1750 (but I am not an historian), there are not many secrets nor truly lost arts. Speaking of which, how can people write books on “lost arts”? If it’s lost, no-one knows about it!)

  139. Ken, darling, you know I adore you beyond all reason, and I Did say you deserve many pork chop dinners. All that being said however, I snark, therefore I am. And dude, you left me an easy target.

  140. I recently knit a yolk sweater based on the EZ percentage system, and used the phony seams and some short rows in the back to shape it. I did the short row under the yolk, which would work for you too, and really keeps it from riding up. The phony seams are possibly my favorite things to do ever. After miles of mindless knitting, pulling that stitch down and then up again and having a beautiful even seam is so cool! I suggest that, you can have “seems” for historical accuracy, and knit in the round!

  141. I’m clearly not as experienced as you are, but it seems to me that one part of knitting IS experimenting, working with the piece, and doing new things to keep things new and growing and better. Now if you try it out in the round and that just doesn’t work, you’ll know the next time you do one!

  142. 1 – I think it depends on what you want as a finished product. What you are making is always going to be a reproduction, but if the “authenticity” is not of utmost importance, I don’t think there’s anything at all wrong with modifying an object. I think some of the most interesting things I see are taking a traditional pattern and riffing off of it. I think tradition gets stultifying sometimese, if you adhere to it without thinking or questioning.
    2 – I don’t think we’ll lose the history. For some pattern changes, you must actually understand the tradition before making modifications. I think enough people enjoy learning all about the tradition itself that these things aren’t disappearing. I respect the people who make entire quilts by hand, with no machine work, but I don’t think that makes my quilt any less valid a piece of art.
    3 & 4 – I don’t know enough to really say, but side seams don’t seem so important on a light-weight garment. I thought shoulder seams were more important, and you don’t have those. And if the Dales are holding up well, I don’t think there’ll be any problems.
    5 – Nah, obsession is fun! As long as it doesn’t get so paralyzing that you can’t make a move to do ANYTHING because of indecision. Then I have to beat up my inner perfectionist.
    Sorry, got all long-winded on you.

  143. I’m sort of ambivalent, but I think that Rams had it right. Good insight!
    On a totally different topic (sort of): why is it that every time you show us what you’re knitting, I WANT to to do that very thing?? Maybe in different colors, or a different application, but always there is something about what you’re knitting that I find fascinating. I’m such a freaking lemming!!

  144. I think it depends on what makes a Bohus sweater a Bohus sweater the pattern and color design or the technique in which it was made. In the case of a Bohus sweater I’m inclined to vote the former. How the sweater was knit reflects what was the most convenient method for the knitters at the time. I’ve never believed that having seams gives the sweater any better structure, many’s the Norwegian or Gansey (hey, weren’t you knitting one of those for Joe?) sweater that are seamless and have withstood the test of time and wear. You have good reasons to knit it in the round, t’wer it me I would go with the idiot knitting and knit it in the round throw in a false seam if it makes you feel better,( I wouldn’t) and still call it a Bohus sweater.

  145. Today’s my biiiirrrrttthday, today’s my biiiirrrth-day…One of my best presents? The pictures of your Bohus, which is mystical magical stuff to your cheesehead, toque-knitting admirer. LOVE to look at it. Interesting to me, your question about historicity, authenticity & tradition. The way YOU do it is “right” and it’ll be eye-wateringly beautiful. As an 18th c. reenactor, I make my (authentic-design) toques on DPs, which were used “back then”. But theirs were steel “knitting pins” from France, doubtless MUCH finer than the 4-7 size bamboos I usually use. Sometimes we maintain tradition for its own sake with pleasure, sometimes….when I’m away from my fellows, I use a circular needle. (Please don’t tell, King Louis would not approve….) VIVE LE ROI!

  146. You know way more about seams than I do, that’s for sure. Ultimately you are going to do it however you want, the Yarn Harlot way, so I say go with yer gut. And dang, that sweater is looking lovely!

  147. Seamless. I’ve not seen solid evidence that seams truly make a sweater “stronger” or prevent “bagging out” and the suchlike. I have seen sweaters with seams that have bagged out where there weren’t seams ie the cardi was made in 5 pieces and sewn together and the fronts droop except at the seams at the side and the buttonbands.
    And I’d be interested in knowing why the original sweaters from Bohusland were seamed. Perhaps because they were made and sold at a time when quality, high-fashion knitting had a “tailored” appearance (facilitated by a pieced and seamed construction) rather than the blocky silhouette typical of leisure wear and “peasant” garments (easily and efficiently made using a seamless construction), and the aim of the Bohus knitting cooperative was to sell in boutiques and stores where the clientelle would be willing to pay more for percieved quality? Who knows.

  148. At the risk of sounding negative, my answers to your questions are: Not, no, no, no, and no.
    The yoke is gorgeous; go forth and knit in the way that pleases you best.

  149. Is it posible that the original Bohus were knit in the round? Then someone “overthought” it and decided it was not REAL ART if you didn’t have to suffer through the seams!!!Things change and NO! NO! NO! seams are not need to make knitting that lasts. I have always thought of seams as rather a weak part in the flow of the fabric. Does your brain hurt yet?

  150. Disney also cut Snow White in its later release.Dopey no longer peeks up Snow White’s dress. Isn’t that just so politically correct-mustn’t give little children evil thoughts!!Loud retching sounds are heard throughout the realm. Am I the only knitter who cannot type worth a darn? Its the only class I got an F in-could be because it was a manual typewriter.

  151. Holy cow. I thought I was the only knitter in the world who knit with one needle tucked under her arm. Now when my mom makes fun of me for it (mostly by threatening to make me a little holster like Scots women used), I can whine “But Stephanie does!” and she can start the whole “if your friends all jumped off a bridge…” thing that I haven’t heard for years.

  152. for a while i converted almost everything to knitting in the round. but then i noticed that david’s sweaters were torquing after a year or so of wear(he is fond of lightweight stockinette or near-stockinette fabrics). i went back to seaming them and the added structure seems to have solved the problem.
    i don’t hink the sweaters wear better with seams, but they definitely keep their shape better ESPECIALLY the lightweight ones. i find that lightweight fabrics are at least as susceptible to strtching out . . .

  153. I think that as long as you KNOW what the tradition is, and are chosing to break it for a reason (other than just for the fun of breaking traditions), that you’re not risking losing the tradition unless you hide what you know when you pass it on.
    I don’t think that it’s vital to knit an historical type sweater exactly as it was originally knit…. for example, I don’t have a knitting belt, and likely would flail forever if asked to use one. Yet there are traditional garments whose original knitters ALWAYS used belts… I can still knit that traditional garment, in it’s traditional way, w/o using the knitting belt.
    I think that for light sweaters, seams do not really add structural strength, and that the sweater will last just as well w/o the seam. As you pointed out… for heavy Arans, seams serve a purpose. However, sometimes, seams would wreck the flow. There’s a REASON your yoke isn’t seamed.
    What if the reason the bottoms were seamed was so more than one inexpert knitter could work at the same time? Or perhaps that in the round was how experts did things, and since less expert knitters did the bodies, they did what they knew — back and forth on straights? (maybe they didn’t have circular needles, and one worried that they’d lose stitches working on long dpns?)
    Knit it in the round. I know you want to …

  154. I think that as long as you KNOW what the tradition is, and are chosing to break it for a reason (other than just for the fun of breaking traditions), that you’re not risking losing the tradition unless you hide what you know when you pass it on.
    I don’t think that it’s vital to knit an historical type sweater exactly as it was originally knit…. for example, I don’t have a knitting belt, and likely would flail forever if asked to use one. Yet there are traditional garments whose original knitters ALWAYS used belts… I can still knit that traditional garment, in it’s traditional way, w/o using the knitting belt.
    I think that for light sweaters, seams do not really add structural strength, and that the sweater will last just as well w/o the seam. As you pointed out… for heavy Arans, seams serve a purpose. However, sometimes, seams would wreck the flow. There’s a REASON your yoke isn’t seamed.
    What if the reason the bottoms were seamed was so more than one inexpert knitter could work at the same time? Or perhaps that in the round was how experts did things, and since less expert knitters did the bodies, they did what they knew — back and forth on straights? (maybe they didn’t have circular needles, and one worried that they’d lose stitches working on long dpns?)
    Knit it in the round. I know you want to …

  155. I will read the 160 or so post before mine when I am sane. But somewhere on the web is a way to do a fake seam but still knit in the round. If you are bothered that much by the whole seam vs. no seam issue you can fake it. 🙂 Personally knit that puppy the way you want.

  156. I think it’s beautiful. And my take on tradition? I think the main tradition of knitting was….
    1. Stay warm
    2. Clothes need to be durable, and warm
    3. Color can be pretty, if the sweater is warm
    4. Without innovation, we’d be knitting with rough sticks and wearing animal skins in a cave while eating sabertooth tiger meat…
    And a technical question. When I do color stranding, I always catch the strand behind using the method described by the owner’s of Philosopher’s Wool. Nice people, but when calling internationally (like I did) be prepared for a big phone bill, the owner talks more than I do!

  157. I think it depends entirely on why you’re knitting your sweater. For THE Gansey, you want to be knitting with tradition- that’s part of why you’re knitting it. For this sweater, not so much. If you had designed the yolk yourself, and had incorporated all of your favorite and necessary ’70s appliance colors, then, yeah, I’d probably recommend straight knitting and seams, but I, as a knitter, am far more interested in stupid knitting, without seams, and at a faster rate.

  158. Lene, I also despise Disney for their messing around with Winnie the Pooh. I will never forgive them.
    As for the seams, I say go forth and do what you like. I know I’m peculiar (its not news) but I don’t mind seams, and I really hate knitting in the round. I love the yin/yang of knit/purl. All of one without any of the other makes me get all batspitty.

  159. Ohmygoodness I love your bohus sweater…it is truly breath-taking!!! Where did you get the pattern…(you might have already said this but i missed it)
    happy knitting,
    Karoline
    p

  160. Ohmygoodness I love your bohus sweater…it is truly breath-taking!!! Where did you get the pattern…(you might have already said this but i missed it)
    happy knitting,
    Karoline

  161. Can a couple of the other knitting historians chime in here please?
    There are seams in most sweaters designed today because of the shift in who designed sweaters in the [help me out here, 20’s, 30’s?].
    Instead of garments being designed by knitters, many sweaters were the result of fashion designeres. Since the fashion world is fabric, and fabric is flat, seams entered sweaters and vests. It had nothing to do with structure per se, it had to do with people writing patterns in a manner in which they were comfortable. Flat, and then sewn together.
    The older, traditional garments such as arans, ganseys, scandinavian were all knit in the round. And as has been already noted – with nice long dp knitting sticks (or wires for the finer garments).
    Where am I going with this? Knitting in the round is tradition, flat and seams are newer. Bohus uses both.
    Make your own tradition.

  162. Tradition is overrated. If it’s going to give you issues, screw tradition. Having women barefoot, pregnant and chained in the kitchen used to be a tradition, or at least a part of our culture. Screw it!
    It’s lovely, no matter how you wear it.

  163. 1) if you are knitting a reproduction, for use/display as a reproduction, it should be done as closely to the orginals as possible. BUT this involves research…not assumptions…for instance cutting circular knits for cardigans, and wrap and turn for circular garter stitch are BOTH 18th C American techniques.
    2) History is not static, it grows and changes, so knitting that you are planing to use in regular life should be done as you see fit…it’s modern history. And things with a tradional flavor can inspire interest in history, often more so if they are modern interpretations of old stuff…that is GOOD!
    3) none of the garments I’ve examined had any seams…and they are 200+ years old!
    5) are you awake? Yep. You are over-focused on nit-picky details. We all know this about you, Stephanie! 😉

  164. Beautiful sweater and isn’t it a coincedence. I have been looking around the web for worsted weight pure silk to make a pattern called Sahara. In my search I had found solsilke. Beautiful colors but I wasn’t sure about the weight of her silk. From what you say I gather I could email and ask her and that you’ve found her business to be reputable? Kim
    PS Does she allow you to pick the colors for one of her kits? Thank you!

  165. Depends on how much you like purling, I guess. I think the earlier comments about all knitting being flat so that silly people could do it, while the experts did their magic thing in the round make a lot of sense. All the books like Goodnight Moon have knitters with straight needles in them. Why don’t you ask Solveig and get a little history from her? I can’t believe those colors – they’re fantastic!
    When I do one, it’ll probably be in the round, just so I can knit for miles.

  166. The original creators of the sweater would have chosen the seaming for a particular reason. Were circulars even invented (unsure of my knitting needle history!), or would doing things in the round mean DPNs? If it were DPNs, then it would make sense to knit flat and seam.
    Knitting is art. Art is never static.

  167. 1&2.) There is a place for tradition and history, but not knitting one pattern ‘by the book’ is not likely to endanger a whole knitting tradition. There will always be purists, and there will always be cowboys. (yee-haw!)
    3&4.) I’ve had a few in the round garments and don’t see them wearing any differently than my flat garments. Structure is a whole other issue, but I agree that the weight of this garment is such that structure will not be materially damaged by the lack of a seam. And if it does sag a bit, or look like it’s becoming an issue, you just fake a seam and give it the structure it wants, but still knit the way you want. You only lose a couple of columns, which on that sweater will be less than a half inch in circumference.
    5.)The mere fact that you are still able to ask the question means you are not (yet) overthinking it.

  168. I think there’s another question about “tradition” that you need to consider. Whose tradition is it? There’s a joke about a mother cooking a pot roast while her small daughter looks on. “Mom, why do you always cut the ends off the roast before you put it in the pan?” “Because that’s how my mother always did it,” replied the harried mother. “But why did she do it?” asked the persistent child. Exasperated, the mother caved, “Let’s just call her and ask,” she sighed. So the mother/grandmother from whom the pestered mother learned to prepare the roast was summoned to the phone. When asked why “we” always cut the ends off the roast, she replied thusly. “I don’t know why you do it, I did it because my pan was always too short for the roast.” Just something to consider!

  169. Well, my Norwegian sweaters, hand knit (in Oslo) in the round and steeked are still beautiful and functional…41 years after they were knit. I’d say that was pretty good wear for sweaters, but they are 100% wool. I treasure them and treat them accordingly. You are making a work of art – make it yours.

  170. The body of the sweater is fuzzy, right? It isn’t going to look any different even if it does torque a little. Knit in the round. (OTOH I do like the idea of a Historical Sweater Reenactment Event.)

  171. A fabulous knitting author once said, “There are no knitting police.” And since knitting in its highest form is as enjoyable as possible (and this definition is different for everyone) your “enjoyable as possible” AT THIS MOMENT is knitting in the round, the round it is!

  172. check out enchanting juno’s post from yesterday that quotes nona’s post from the day before — that sums up neatly (for me) whether or not to benefit from the wisdom of all the knitters who’ve gone down the rows before us.
    in my humble opinion, the only exception is old timey sock patterns – for those i will work out all manner of traditional weirdness even when i know that i could do a short-row heel in no time flat.
    go figure. to each her own.

  173. stunning, absolutely stunning, the finished pic of the yoke….stunningly beautiful. I can only imagine how beautiful it is in real life….thank you so much for sharing your knitting with me, oh and the rest of the world….

  174. Steph, please do a post on knitting ‘tucked’. I knit with my right needle under my right arm as I was taught that way over 20 years ago by an English lady. I’m always surprised at how odd it seems to other knitters and have even been seriously laughed at on occasion. It’s fast and efficient with the only drawback being awkwardness in using circs and dpns. As I’ve just started learning how to knit socks I would appreciate hearing just how you do it when you swap over to dpns. I can’t seem to find a comfortable way to hold the needle in my right hand. Obviously I don’t knit Continental. I’ve also heard knitting tucked referred to as knitting ‘Scottish style’.

  175. Ah, I’ve had that same conversation with dear Susanna. The cathedral and the igloo? Oh, yes. I’ve taken her finishing class too–that woman sure knows how to (a) teach and (b) finish a sweater. However, despite all her efforts, I’ve not given up on seamless sweaters–I think they have their place. It’s knitter’s choice. Do what makes you happy. Besides, if we ALWAYS did things the same way, how would we ever invent new traditions? MaryB

  176. My philosophy of knitting knitting (which I took from my philosophy of cooking): patterns, like recipes, are suggestions. Now while they may contain some good advice and may help you understand the mechanics of how something works, they aren’t actually meant to be followed. So, by all means, knit it in the round!

  177. 1. Only if I were learning it in a class re the historical technique, when teaching such a class, making it for re-enacting, or for a museum display. Are you planning on hanging the sweater, or yourself wearing it, on a wall somewere? If we didn’t ever break tradition, we wouldn’t be knitting – we’d have gotten stuck at, “Gee, I wish I could stay warmer without burying myself in a pile of grass or something.” If we’d even gotten as far as the grass idea, that is.
    2. Nope. I might worry if it were a 1,000-year-old tradition and only one example was available, but, you know, that just isn’t the situation here.
    3. No experience here, as I have only (umpteen) unfinished sweaters… but seams have always seemed like a totally unintuitive way to go if you can knit something in the round. I find the idea of fake seams in circular knits hilarious. Don’t many knitting books say making sweaters in pieces only came about because they could farm out work to individual knitters that way to get ’em done faster, like a Ford production line? And whose sweater is it, anyway? (PS – do real Cowichan sweaters have seams? Not from what I’ve read, and those aren’t lightweights.)
    4. Nope.
    5. Not if you’re having fun doing it. 😉 If, however, continued pondering starts driving you nuts, have some Screech and some chocolate and just go with it, already, before you start to hate it.

  178. I do whatever I can to avoid seams because I like to be DONE when I’m done. Don’t like sewing seams. Nosireebob. Nope. Uh uh. But that’s me. You’re you. Carry on.

  179. I just invested in some rechargeable german AA batteries – Ansmann brand. They claim to be usable 1000 times, and the (large clunky) charger works in North America or in Asia/Europe without an adapter.
    Really I want to get a new camera without this type of battery … instead a camera that just plugs into the wall.
    happy knitting
    Lisa

  180. Hi Steph,
    1–Well it is in my nature to change patterns and recipes. I make them because I like them but somehwere along the line I also make them a little bit more mine by changing something to better suit my tastes.
    2– I think that history and tradition need to be recognized and honored but i donot think they need to be set in concrete. I don’t think our ancestors did either. Look at our language to realize the changes that are and have been made constantly. As long as the writer/designer is given recognition, then why not make it easier for yourself to finish. It may just turn into a UFO otherwise.
    i am not answering 3 & 4 because I do not have strong opinions there.
    5- Knitting is your life. How can you be overly concerned with it then? but maybe you needed blog fodder today?
    Namaste, Susan

  181. It seems like the consensus of opinion is that you should do what you want to do. It sounds to me like you’d like to forego the seams. So do that. If you decide that it wasn’t the right decision, you can always do the whole thing over again and knit it in the round. I have to say though, that I agree with the “knitting is not sewing camp” and never sew seams. If I can’t knit ’em, I find another pattern.

  182. 1. Well, if you figure there was a reason they did things that way – and the reason is no longer valid then toss the tradition. OTOH, if it turns out there was some non-obvious reason for doing it that way and you find this out later – you can tell us all about it.
    2. No – for the same reason “because I said so” is dubious.
    3. Nah.
    4. Nope
    5. Do you think I’m thinking about a sweater too much, am in danger of being called “overly focussed” again and just need to make up my mind and knit the thing, because seriously, this is not a huge issue?
    Well, see, it’s your job to think about these things and discuss them with us. Kinda like it’s Stephen Hawking’s job to think about the Big Bang. Not a huge issue but interesting none the less.

  183. Hi Stephanie! I am awed by your amazing yoke on teensy needles-I tend to save teensy needles for things like lace that are done quicker-I lack patience!! but your questions made me think-I think knitting traditions are so interesting and yet I love that knitting is so personal to the individual knitter, too-so do what will make you least likely to go lie in the road!! and hey, I just started a new blog if you want to come over for a visit!
    http://talkissheep.blogspot.com/
    (I still don’t know how to link-sorry for the cut and paste necessary-that’s so early 2003, I know….)

  184. Do what makes you happy and don’t worry. My take on the whole tradition thing is that no matter how time and preferences change, we always come back around to the styles/techniques of old. Why? They are worthy. (Sort of like your recent proclivity for a certain color scheme…) =-D

  185. Hi — long-time lurker, first-time commenter:
    I’m with the advocates of knitting it in the round and doing a phoney seam. Best of both worlds.

  186. I say, it hasn’t got cables, so do it in the round and don’t worry about it. If it works for fair-isle it seems logical that it would work the same for this.

  187. I thought I was the only person who knit with a needle under one arm. Someone told me that it is because my grandmother was a Scot and that is how they knit there. I do know that it is the only was I seem to be able to knit. Thanks
    meg

  188. I say knit in the round. Knitting (or the act of) is a living, breathing thing. It has evolved over the centuries by other intrepid knitters asking the same questions you ask now. Honor them by taking risks they didn’t know how to take.

  189. Today’s my biiiirrrrttthday, today’s my biiiirrrth-day…One of my best presents? The pictures of your Bohus, which is mystical magical stuff to your cheesehead, toque-knitting admirer. LOVE to look at it. Interesting to me, your question about historicity, authenticity & tradition. The way YOU do it is “right” and it’ll be eye-wateringly beautiful. As an 18th c. reenactor, I make my (authentic-design) toques on DPs, which were used “back then”. But theirs were steel “knitting pins” from France, doubtless MUCH finer than the 4-7 size bamboos I usually use. Sometimes we maintain tradition for its own sake with pleasure, sometimes….when I’m away from my fellows, I use a circular needle. (Please don’t tell, King Louis would not approve….) VIVE LE ROI!

  190. OKay, first of all, I totally love your sweater and the 1970’s colorway you have chosen. As far as your construction questions…I guess I think go with your gut. If it doesn’t work out you can always start over….although that is never any fun huh?
    Second, have you ever tried to weave in the floats in the back of a sweater before? The reason I ask is because I recently took a fair Isle class taught by http://www.Philosopherswool.com and they are big fans of weaving in the floats. Just thought I would ask what your take on it is.
    Marly (in Colorado waiting for your book tour to come here!)
    http://www.knitthing.blogspot.com
    http://www.knitthing.mypodcast.com

  191. I do wonder if the yarn is so soft that the lack of seams might mean a slightly higher chance of wearing through the sides?

  192. Sorry, Stephanie and dears….the system didn’t do it; I waited for hours – and then it did it thrice. I’m embarrassed and apologetic….

  193. Maybe this has been said before….but it’s after 1 AM…..I did not want to read 210 posts, since I had to finish a sleeve for a jacket…..I really did not ” have to “, but decided I had to……does that make sense ?
    I believe very strongly that if no one would ever change existing patterns and ways of knitting, we would all still knit like 400 years ago……sometimes maybe interesting, but not always satisfying……
    Saludos
    Angelika
    Mexico City where it is right now 44F…..

  194. History should be part of life,not something petrified in the museums. Folk songs get ne2 life when played on electric guitar, old house isn’t destroyed by new hardwood floors and electric lights…. so what the heck about sweaters?
    I hate seaming. I never do it. If something heavyweight needs to be reinforced in a way or another, I just construct it differently in such a way that (1) I don’t have to seam anything (2) as much as possible can be done in the round. Well… my Architecte pattern (soon to be made public somewhere, I’ve invented a name for it) consists of some knitting in flat.. and veeeery long rows and I still like it…. But I just prefer knitting in the round. Just now I wonder how to do intarsia-like stuff in the round. My knit and purl stitches are way different so either the result looks irregular or I have to use different needles and it just sucks. Do what you consider okay and do not worry about it. History goes on.

  195. Wihout reading even one of the previously written comments, I offer my response to your questions: yes, knitting differently than the pattern dictates may be “messing with tradition” but you are adding your OWN touch after all. Every time somebody knits an item, it is an artistic extension of themselves(I believe). And just as with a mechanic or engineer, sometimes ya have to tnker with things to make em work. As knitters, our tinkering includes A LOT of options. I don’t think it takes anything away from the pattern you are working on if you add something of yourself to it.

  196. I think that if we always stuck with tradtion we would still be in caves. I think there are purists who will keep history alive for us, and innovators who want to build a better mouse trap. We need both. Therefore you do what you like and forget about worrying about it.
    Janet
    who only wishes her idiot kniting looked like yours…

  197. Do you remember the story about the halved turkey? On their first Thanksgiving together, a young bride cut the turkey in half, laid both halves on top of the dressing and put it in the oven to bake. Her husband asked the reason for doing it that unusual way, and she said it was a long standing tradition in her family. When visiting the bride’s mother, the husband asked her about the tradition of halving the turkey. She told him she didn’t know, but her mother had always done it that way, and she would know the history. He went to the grandmother and asked about this long standing tradition, and her reply was,”I cut the turkey in half because my oven was too small to leave it whole”. So there was no sacred tradition to uphold…it was a matter of convenience…ergo…you know what to do.

  198. I can’t read your blog late at night. I dreamt that I was in a room full of women wearing Bohus sweaters and I couldn’t stop sneezing. Yup, I have bunny allergies. And I woke up with a cold. Who needs Freud?
    Should we stick with tradition so we don’t lose history? Are fields still plowed by horse? Do we live in caves? I think that if my great grandmother would have owned a sewing machine she would have used it. The memories of history still exists even when we find a new or better way of doing something.
    I have also heard about seams being important for structure, but I’m not sure I agree with that in all cases. I just cast on Hebrides in a heavy yarn (Candide) and decided to knit it in the round. I don’t mind purling but am definitely a lot slower at it. If I think it needs the structure of a seam I will go in after and seam a couple of stitches together. It will yield the same result as seaming a sweater that is actually cut.
    Think about a sweater too much? good one!

  199. 1. Depends on why you are making the sweater. If it is to be an example of that garments history, then make it the way it has alwasy been made. If it is for you pleasure, do as you prefer.
    2. I think there is enough interest in the history of knitting that you making the sweater in the round will not imperil our knowledge of history. If you know the shape of the box, you can work outside it. You obviously understand how te sweater is made traditionally, so you can play off of it.
    3. I hope that is not true, since I have been working on a sweater with cables that Jill and I designed without side seams.
    4.See above, I hope this isn’t true or I am going to be very sad. I think side seams can reduce biasing, or at least I have seen that to be true when sewing with knit fabric.
    5. Yep, Just go ahead and knit it in what ever manner pleases you, it is just knitting and if you don’t like it done in the round you can rip it back and reknit in pieces.

  200. I’m sure you got enough responses to your knitting questions so I am chiming in to ask a question of my own.
    With all the pictures you take, why don’t you have rechargeable batteries? It’s great because I can have two in the camera and two in the charger at all times so never that disappoinment of missing a shot.
    Definitely not trying to tell you what to do, just trying to help.
    I think I covet the Bohus more than anything I’ve ever seen on your blog. The colors make me happy.

  201. Personally, my gauge changes slightly from needle to needle (I hold circs and straights differently, needle material is a factor, etc.). I say go with whatever gives you proper gauge. This is your “defeat the winter blues” project, right? Please yourself; don’t let it make you crazy. There is a reason traditions evolve, and seams either are your cuppa or are not.

  202. I usually convert all things flat to knitting in the round, but I’ve found that some things torque.
    I think it’s the way I knit certain yarns. If my knitting looks like vertical lines (my guess is that means it’s a little snug for the weight of yarn) the stitch leans ever so slightly to one side, and it makes those neat little lines. Unfortunately, these are the sweaters that seem to twist with time. And if there is no shaping, I guess it doesn’t matter, but it drives me nuts just the same.
    I would think if your stitches look “balanced” to you, you’d be fine.

  203. If you’re knitting a museum piece or a class sampler, stick to the methods. If you’re knitting to use and love, stick to what makes you least crazy.

  204. 1. Fooey on this! You are not doing an historic reproduction fer crysakes! You are knittin a sweater!
    2. There will always be people who DO historical reproductions. You are an artist. Knit your own sweater!
    3.and 4. Bohus sweaters were knitted in pieces because the work was done different women. One would knit the yoke. then another, with lesser skills, would work the body front, or back, or a sleeve. If she had a day or two when she couldn’t work, someone else would take the sweater and work another piece. They all knit close to the same gauge, and good blocking cures a number of ills.
    5. Yes.

  205. That last photo reminds me of a sun gilded cloud, stunning.
    Diane of Yarntails, Meredith, and Rams has said it all for me…go for it.
    I tried to leave this yesterday but it wouldn’t take it, perhaps today, thank you Ken…

  206. For your sweater – everything was at one time an innovation. The question is whether the way ‘they’ did it was the result of serious consideration of an issue or just what was available at the time.
    Maybe splitting the sweater and working the remainder flat was the result of working the yoke on long double points because it made it easier for the yoke pattern to flow, and when they got past that point they said “Whew – back to the straights!”. With the circs we have now, it’s not much of an issue.
    (Insert here the joke about the guy who asks his wife why she cuts the ends off the ham before baking it – her mother did – asks MIL – her mother did – asks grandma – “To make it fit in the pan.”)
    In a heavier sweater, I agee the seams are needed to counteract stretch, but if the sweater is lightweight enough, forget it. You could do Z’s fake seams if you think you need them.
    Your issues with web hosting kind of remind me of the Blue Moon Sock Club mess. Did your hosting company not believe that that many people could be interested in knitting?

  207. Lovely sweater and excellent, thought-provoking questions. I most certainly do not buy the theory that seams help a sweater keep its shape (even large, heavy Arans such as my Knitting Olympics sweater!). I think appropriate gauge for the yarn is what holds the shape. At any rate, I find that any shaping is more easily accomplished in the round because it is much easier to make the shaping moves on the same horizontal round/row.
    Since Bohus sweaters were designed to be knitted for sale, it is surprising to me that they were knit in pieces, frankly. In most cases, knitters looking for speed would knit in the round. Bohus sweaters were not indigenous folk designs, so I would guess that the sweater construction was highly influenced by runway fashions in Europe. I don’t have my copy of Poems of Color at hand–are all the sweaters constructed in pieces? Did they use knitting machines for the bodies and sleeves in some cases?
    Bottom line for YOUR sweater? Make it yours. Unless you intend to be all irritating and repetitive every time someone gives you a compliment: “Oh, yes, this is an original Bohus design–but I didn’t knit it in pieces, so it’s not really a true replica.” That would get soooo tiresome.

  208. Interesting discussion.
    Thinking about this with all the comments as background, I think my reasons for wanting to work the garment flat may have something to do with my aversion to knitting circularly (yes, I realize I’m very much in the minority here) as well as my desire to be “accurate” historically.
    I came to realize that I had no problem “accepting” and liking the changes one of the Rainey sister made to her Blue Shimmer sweater a short while back (she hemmed the bottom and put a little bit of patterning around the sleeves if I recall correctly). So what I thought what devotion to history and tradition, probably has quite a bit to do with how I prefer to knit.
    Who would have thought?

  209. Oh. My. God. Seriously, seriously beee-oooo-fiul. I have no words, except: now I wanna make a Bohus .. and .. there is never a good reason for seams, lol.

  210. Work it back and forth. If you don’t and it turns out less than pleasant, you’ll have a year and a half to rip back…plus shaping turns out so much better. Also you will be happier with you if you can call it an authentic bohus as opposed to an authentic bohus yoke
    Much Love.

  211. This sweater makes me think of paintings by Turner (hope you saw the show at the AGO), Klimt and Paterson Ewan. Atmospheric.
    What a joy to spend time with such yarn.

  212. 1. Progress requires change.
    2. If it has been written down ant that writing is protected by an organization or a government, then the history can never be lost.
    3. As an ex-pattern drafter from San Francisco’s fashion industry I can honestly say that although the seam itself has strength and durability, the areas on each side of a seam are weaker as a result of the seam. For example: take any old oxford shirt or button down that you no longer wear ; now attempt to rip the seam apart with your bare hands. 9 times out of 10 the fabric next to the seam will tear. Seams are strong yes, but that doesn’t mean they are always the way to go.
    4. If a garment doesn’t need a seam for structure, and it would make you happier to do it without a seam, then you should always try to make yourself happier!
    5. You can NEVER be overly focused or “think too much” about knitting!

  213. Hi Steph, I am one of your regular readers (daily usually) who rarely comments but I can’t resist telling you, though you already know, how deliciously gorgeous that yoke is. It makes me want to hop on a boat, go and live in Scandanavia and knit teeny strandard yarn patterns for the rest of my life. I really, really, really, really like it.

  214. Greetings! In answer to your questions:
    1. For many years, the techniques were passed down from knitter to knitter through teaching, not writing. It evolved over time to the techniques we know now. We now consider them to be worthy of writing down as patterns and the most treasured ones are preserved. If you as a knitter feel that you want to create something historically correct in technique, you should stick with the pattern as written.
    2. Change is bound to happen in a craft. History isn’t lost because we have the documentation recorded in photographs and patterns. Changing how a pattern is executed isn’t losing history; it’s adding to it.
    3. Seams in a garment are dependent upon how the garment is constructed, with what yarn is used, and how it is worn. Since we’re putting a flat piece of material over a curved shape, a seam gives definition and structure. Heavier yarns and looser gauges require seaming to hold the garment’s shape. But yarns that are lighter weight and/or knit at tighter gauges (like Dale sweaters) don’t require that extra structure to maintain their shape.
    4. See my response to #3
    5. Paraphrasing Crash Davis, “Don’t think, just knit.” I’d go seamless though on the sleeves, to make it more mindless.
    Stay warm!

  215. “But we’ve always done it this way.” Yeah, right. The bureaucrat’s war cry. Knitting is a young art. You’re not knitting a museum artifact, you are knitting a sweater for yourself.

  216. What. A. Gorgeous. Yoke.
    As for the body and sleeves, I cannot shake the feeling that if it was me and I knit it in the round , I would discover after maybe 3/4 of the knitting is done (or worse, when trying it on at the end) what the exact reason for knitting this sweater flat was…
    And have to:
    a) have this sweater with a gorgeous yoke but this detail in the bodice shaping I did no foresee and it would nag me to no end
    or
    b) frog it back to the yoke and knit it again… both options are enough to scare my circular-knitting self into knitting flat.

  217. Amy Lu speaking of the stitches making, like, vertical lines, is right. I however noticed that these lines appear on one side of the seam (depending whether it´s a S twist or a Z twist) in yarns that are twisted a lot and knit on small gauges….

  218. Well, obviously I chose to do mine in the round. When I start my next one, the Large Collar, I will also knit it in the round (and forego the ribbing, which I don’t like). The thing is, many Bohus sweaters were originally knit in the round, while some were knit back and forth. There is not one tradition and, even if it were, personal preference should trump.
    From my experience, and my sister’s, these are not sweaters that need seams for structure. Most of the weight is in the yoke, which drapes nicely over your shoulders.
    Also. one of the nice things about knitting them in the round is the ability to try it on as you knit and see exactly how it will fit.
    I love my Blue Shimmer; it’s one of the best fitting most comfortable sweaters I’ve knit recently.

  219. I think for me to be the best knitter I can be, I should at least KNOW traditional methods of knitting. I should honor the tradition by learning it. HOWEVER, once I’ve knit with different methods, I should not feel bad for being comfortable using a less-traditional method.
    For example, I sold and gave away all my straight needles. I learned on them, I used them a lot, but once I got my first set of circs I found that they were a lot more comfortable. Same with my DPNs – I have a few sets left for hats and sleeves and sock heels with gussets, but Magic Loop just works better for me. I can stuff a ML project into my purse and not worry about needles falling off and getting lost. Old school knitters didn’t have space-age plastics that would get all bendy. I’m sure they’d have used them, otherwise.

  220. Everything you knit turns out beautifully. I wouldn’t worry about it too much. Do it how you feel it needs to be done.
    What makes knitting so wonderful is the artistic expression different people put into their pieces. Wouldn’t it be boring for everyone to do their patterns exactly as written? This would mean thousands of sweaters of one color and one fit. The fun is making knits your own, not making it just like everyone else’s.
    Just knit what you feel and it will come out great.
    🙂

  221. Crash Davis! Thank you, Duffy — that’s what I needed today. Maybe equally appropriate, considering where we are, would be Annie’s Blake quotation — “The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom.”
    (“William Blake?”
    “William Blyke!!!”
    “Whadda you mean, William Blake?”
    “Ah mean WILLIAM BLYKE!”)

  222. oh! do it in the round! then post a converting to round tutorial 🙂 so that we can all learn from your mistakes…i mean EXPERIENCE 🙂
    besides, if they had had lovely knitpicks circs, wouldn’t it have been knit this way?

  223. First, I must say that the sweater is absolutely beautiful!
    The concept of knitting a yoke in the round and then changing to flat needles boggles my small mind. It has never occured to me (my experience is drastically small, obviously) that someone would do that.
    I think I agree with one of the first commenters, if you are not knitting this for a museum, it is yours, baby! No reason to be “hide-bound”. Do whatever you like, since the seams are not structurally important to how the garment hangs or wears.
    What I, and I am sure many of us, would like to see is for you to post on YouTube a few videos of your knitting style. I saw your interview on CBC from Lettuce Knit, your tuck-needle-under-arm style is WILD! How on EARTH do you do that with circular needles?! I would love to see that, you might have to get the teenagers to help you with YouTube (I certainly would!).

  224. Regarding the historical nature of these garments–you modify other garments with a history don’t you? Why should this one be different.
    Unless someone helps me I’ll probably do it as written (because I’m lazy) but really, this pattern should be in the round in my mind.
    I don’t see the need for seams except to give it that “fully fashioned” look that would have been important for the business of Bohus (ie it looked like other mass market sweaters).

  225. My two cents (and my quite possibly be worth less than that):
    For me, doing something the traditional way or not depends on why I am doing it in the first place. If I am learning a specific stitch, or a specific sock construction for example, then doing it in the ‘traditional’ way makes sense. If the ‘traditional’ way is better, for structural reasons, or maybe even aesthetic ones, then that makes sense as well. But not changing something merely because it is traditional doesn’t make sense. As soon as ‘traditions’ of any kind stop changing and evolving they are beginning to die (this is very true for languages, as a matter of fact). Take it from me– I’m an anthropologist– everything changes and that is what keeps traditions going.

  226. 1. Not too important in this context. It’s not for a museum is it?!
    2. Again, not in this context because there are plenty of people who will stick with the history AND that’s what museums are for.
    3. I’m not the expert most of your other consultants can prove to be, but seams do not “seem” (ha, ha) essential in this garment.
    4. “If a sweater does not need seams for structure or integrity, can you think of any other reason to have them?” Nope, not unless you like sewing them (and we already know that answer, right?).
    5. You are loved for “over-thinking” Stephanie. You are also loved for being down-to-earth. Choose the latter this time ;-).

  227. Unless you’re trying to knit the sweater as a reproduction garment, I don’t think keeping to history is that important. That’s why we have books. I find sweaters knit in the round wear just as well as seamed sweaters. (I haven’t knit a heavy Aran sweater with or without seams.) If we didn’t change traditions, there would be little progress. In other words, do what makes you happy.

  228. In the words of the immortal E. Zimmerman, whose sweater is it? Aside from the question of how you like to work, will the fit be affected? Seams on some sweaters help the fit, as on flat sewing patterns. But it looks like round knitting will work fine, one of several traditional choices to go by. Thanks for sharing such beautiful work–I follow your knitting to escape from my non-knitting job.

  229. hope I got the order right
    1)preserving history is for historians and museums unless that’s your thing
    2)we lose or change or evolve constantly, If we want to do it “hysterically” we’d have to use nalbinding.
    3)She’s wrong. Seams are often a bad stress point. Avoiding contact with sharp points and edges or high levels of friction is paramount in wear.
    4) There’s other ways to stabilize heavy sweaters, including slip st mock seams and ribbon.
    5)The knitting police are all dead. Make yourself happy.
    I love Bohus and haven’t done it for years. It’s so satisfying to watch the patterns stick their little heads up. I used to particularly like the one called little teeth (or something like that).
    Llinn

  230. I feel that it is important to preserve the traditional art in their original form, somewhere. But we learn and advance with experimentation. Knitting is an art form and you are the artist. It is just as important to express yourself with your art as it is to preserve the original. This is my philosophy. So it is just a matter of deciding if you want to make a “reproduction” or explore the possiblities. There is no wrong here. You get to get to choose how you want to do it.

  231. what i think (in 5 answers or significantly less):
    -i think change/modification/variance is essential to not just knitting, but everything(just look at language and how it evolves to reflect modern life, yet still retains its link to its own history).
    -i am astounded and amazed at the bravery and skill of those who can veer from the holy gospel of the written pattern and have complete faith that the end result will still be spectacular.
    -so in a nutshell: you make history by changing the project to mark it as “your own” and by passing along your newfound discoveries.

  232. Interesting questions.
    Must be a reason why the sleeves were always knit back and forth. Would you need to add gussets if you knit the sleeves in one piece?
    Beautiful yoke.
    deeni

  233. seems like history is full of things that we no longer do for very good reasons. No reason to keep doing things the “traditional” way if you have something that works better for you.

  234. How can one become over focused on anything that involves yarn? Besides, strategizing about different ways to work a pattern and the pros and cons of those ways, counts as mental excercise, and, therefore, helps to prevent Alzimers and other mind problems that might impede future knitting. :)))

  235. You have heard the story of the ham? How granny always cut the ends off the ham before baking it, and so did daughter and grand daughter? And one day, they asked granny why they all did that, why it improved the flavor and was the one true way? ANd granny said- I didn’t have a pan large enough to fit a ham. So I cut the ends off. That is tradition. Go forth and knit around and around and around.

  236. Your questions about changing something changing what we know of history are interesting.
    I suspect that if we all stuck to how our grandmother did it we wouldn’t have the wonderful and creative ideas out there today. I wouldn’t have learned to knit English and Continental, and you wouldn’t be knitting backwards when the occasion calls for it!
    I have noticed a trend when you question the next step of a project. Typically, you voice what you would like to do, then the potential problems… and then you do what you voiced was your instinct/idea in the first place. So, go for the sleeves & body in the round and trust your instincts.

  237. Dear Harlot,
    I am strongly considering buying the fabulously beautiful Buttoned down bohus cardigan kit in the pale pink colorway. I plan on ordering direct as suggested…. Can I ask the price of a kit? I can’t make heads or tails of the web site.
    Thanks….
    have a happy…
    and am anxiously awaiting your new book too!

  238. Hi Stephanie,
    I got my Large Lace Collar jacket kit yesterday, and have been happily swatching (ie knitting the sleeve) before starting the pattern. My take on your question is do what you like ! in line with the other comments.
    I will be doing the seams because I love the Catherine Lowe joinery bind-off, and I did an invisible cast-on (the one where it rolls around the edge) for the sleeve cuffs because I like that too.
    Picky and non-traditional
    Your sweater is lovely!
    Sarah

  239. I always think things need adjusting – I am the total opposite of ‘that is how it has always been done’ thinking. It irks me.
    If for no other reason than that – I would do the sleeves in the round. And the body too d*mn it!
    What kind of server thinks you access the program too often? Isn’t that what they are looking for in a customer??

  240. Oh, I just thought of something else. Didn’t I read somewhere (Elizabeth Zimmerman, maybe?) that when knitting in the round, you mark where the seams would be with stitch markers, and make fake seams? I forget how it’s done, twisted stitches or something. Then you have the best of both! Just sayin’.

  241. 1. if you’re really in a tizzy about this, knit one the historical way (to say you’ve done it), and the next in a modern, practical, and 21st C. way. Harlots don’t care what other people think, at least about their knitting!
    2. Some history is good to lose.
    3. I still have sweaters from junior high that I’d like to ditch, but the damn things won’t wear out!
    4. No.
    5. Yes, this is not a huge issue. Some people like to live in history like you could never top it. But no inventor of knitting stuff was ever historically-minded. They were mavericks. We make things for the way we live now with the materials we have available to us.

  242. Opinions from a girl allergic to sewing up…
    1. You are a trailblazer in the knitting world. Your work will form new traditions and you should allow it to do that.
    2. History, shmistory.
    3. Any sweater that needs seams for their ongoing wear needs to find another closet to live in. With my knitting,it’s my way or the highway, bay-bee! (Can you pop a purl stitch in where seams would be? Isn’t that one of the gansey properties?)
    4. Can’t think of a reason. I seam when I can’t find a way not to.
    5. I have been caught knitting while caught in traffic, at the movies and while walking down a particularly long corridor at the Halifax airport. Overthinking your knitting? Are you freaking kidding me?

  243. I am reminded of the story of the young woman who made a roast by cutting off the last 2 inches of meat before placing it in the roasting pan. When questioned, she said it was the way her mother taught her to do it. When the mother was asked, she said it was family tradition; her mother had always made roasts that way. When the grandmother was asked, she said she cut off the roast so it would fit in the pan that fit her oven. One can’t always ask all the great grandmothers….do what works for you.

  244. This is absolutely stunning! Everything about your bohus is absolutely stunning! You have inspired me to knit one (or many!)
    Thanks!!

  245. Me again –
    I knit Icelandic sweaters and everything is knit in the round. There are only two small seams to sew under the sleeve pits. I think this method holds up very well.
    However, I am a stickler for process and prooject integrity. If I were to attempt a bohus, it would be as intended. I would do the seams. My vote is to stick with tradition.

  246. How about knitting the LOVELY bohus in the round and then if you feel you need some stabilizing on the sides, do some Elzabeth Zimmerman “phoney seams”? By the way, my guild had a program about the bohus sweaters last month (Greater St. Louis Knitters’ Guild) and I am inspired by both to do one. They are just incredibly lovely!

  247. I’m guessing that, while we’re commenting, Steph is knitting. She will have finished the sweater, by the time we’re done arguing.

  248. I haven’t had time to read all the posts this morning, so I hope I am not repeating a point.
    This may sound like a semantics dance, but it is not.
    Bohus is much more of a technique than a tradition. The part of the sweater that makes it uniquely “Bohus” is not the seams — it’s the stranding technique and blending of colors. Granted, that particular structure was used so that the skilled knitters could do the colorwork and pass the easy parts on to less skilled hands, and I also suspect that this construction was used in order to assure uniformity of sizing for mass-production: you will get more consistent results measuring a flat piece to determine if it’s long enough yet, rather than measuring the fabric hanging from the needles.
    So. I would not incorporate space-dyed yarns or beads or dropped stitches or yarnovers or cables, and try to call it a Bohus sweater. And if I were knitting it for a “history of knitting” display, I would use the original construction method. But this is for you to wear, and the seams are not essential to the structure as they are in a garment with a tailored fit, or other considerations in which the seam provides stability.
    For the exact same reasons, I cannot use the word “gansey” to refer to a crew-necked cut-and-sewn sweater with horizontal bands of reversible texture patterns executed in a cotton/silk yarn. The gansey is truly a tradition, spanning many generations, not just a few, and the seamlessness, the texture patterns AND the yarn choice are all critical to it being called a “gansey.” I would go so far as to call a textured, piecework, cotton-silk garment “gansey inspired” but it is NOT a gansey.

  249. My boss, at the yarn store where I work part-time, agrees with Susanna about the necessity of seams to protect the integrity of the knitted structure. I, however, am a lazy knitter, and will always try to find an easy way out. (Read 3 needle bind-offs, etc.) I feel that history is great, but I like to see someone else re-enact it!! I don’t want small-pox either. I know you’ll read all 300 comments, and consider all the varied advice and make an informed decision. (my vote-go for circular, and use the time saved to knit something else)

  250. I just remembered another reason, why I ALWAYS try to work in the round (I steek) instead of switching…GAUGE. My flat gauge is very very very very different from my round gauge. I’m guarranteed to have a gauge disaster if I switch to flat above the armholes…and the Goddess of Gauge is a fickle enough Goddess without challenging her with something that I know won’t work well!

  251. Long time reader, first time commenter!
    I think that this sweater is lovely and although I am not as familiar with the historical aspects as yourself I thought that a general comment about historical items might help. Just because something was historically created one way, does not make it neccisary for you to give up the joy and comfort of your hobby for it. The history is in the beauty of this item and how it looks when it is done. Had you not said anything I may just as well have thought that it was supposed to be done in the round. On the flip side I don’t think that you could convert the pattern for use with 2 number 10 needles. it is beautiful because of the needles and I’m not sure that finishing it a certain way unless you damage the look of the finished product matters. Your work is lovely and I can’t wait to see the finished product. Seams or not!
    On a personal note…I love the round and hate seams!

  252. Hmm. . I’m late to this post so I dont’ know if you’ll actually get around to reading this.
    Seams–I hate them because I am not skilled with them so my perspective is skewed; however, if you KNOW you are changing an historical pattern, and you are fully cognizant of the actions you are about to undertake, I don’t believe you have actually tampered with the integrity of history. This is especially true if you consider that the entire history of humankind is made of up of the evolution of ideas and the pitiful repetition of mistakes. Maybe you are evolving as opposed to repeating? Just a thought from a not-so-clever knitter.
    A note on the sweater. . .the colors (per my computer screen) are just screaming “Aurora Borealis!!!” For some reason this sweater reminds me very vividly of the northern lights as they appear in WI. It’s beautiful. I hope we’ll all get to see a pic of it on someone when it’s done.

  253. Well, if it’s any help at all, when I saw Wendy knitting a bohus in January, my initial thought was “Good Lord, what on earth is she knitting it back and forth for? That would be so easy to do in the round.”
    So, I’ll weigh in on the “knit it the way that brings you most joy” side of the fence.

  254. Stephanie, I especially loved your Friday blog about being an artist and a writer…it was brilliant and very true. Art is not just about creating content, which is a fabulous sweater here, but it’s also about re-designing the process of the creation. When you re-design the process, it’s also a work of art (just as the Impressionists such as Georges Seurat created pontillism), and as such, it’s a very valid and appropriate! Go for it !!
    Best wishes from Daryl Lynn 🙂

  255. Another long thought about tradition — and sorry for two blue shirts in one day, and opening the closet twice to boot.
    Tourists are often puzzled by the insane number of one-way streets in New Orleans, and the many locations where left turns are not allowed, and never have been, even though it makes no apparent sense not to allow them. On most of the older divided streets, if you want to make a left turn, you have to pass the intersection and use the turnabout, then go back to the intersection and make a right turn.
    All those one-way streets and no-left-turn laws date back to the horse and wagon days. Many New Orleans streets are so narrow that two hitched teams pulling wagons would be unable to pass one another on the street without the danger of entangling wheels. So, laws were passed making streets alternate one way or the other, and only on divided streets or boulevards was two-way traffic allowed in most places.
    In the age of cars, the one-way rule still makes sense, because off-street parking is rare. Today, while most of those streets would accommodate two vehicles bound in opposite directions, they can’t accommodate two-way traffic AND have cars parked along the street as well.
    So the one-way streets remain, but for good reason.
    As the city grew, streets laid after the advent of the automobile were made sufficiently wide to allow for both parking and two-way traffic. Or, off-street parking was designed in.
    In the older parts of New Orleans, the tradition still makes sense.
    So, do what maks sense.

  256. Having suffered thru many winters, many degrees below zero… It is worth reminding readers that you are probably quoting temperatures in degrees C. And until we hit that magic point at -40, there is big difference between -15 C and -15 F

  257. The sweater is beautiful.
    The weather here has gone from -20F to about 27F (above zero!!) here today, and we’ve been running around outside without coats on.
    A few months ago I would have been begging for my winter coat at 27F. Amazing how the perspective shifts!

  258. Knit on, dear.
    and if you despise the result, EZ proposes a technique to add “faux seems” in a garment knitted in the round. You can find it in “Knitting workshop”, drop me an email if you need the page number or else.
    IMO, a sweater in plain stockinette stitch in such a lightweight wool needs no seam. If it turns around a bit, no one will notice, and it won’t plunge to your knees, unless you really really misuse it.
    Knit on, dear.

  259. Is it going to be framed and hung on the wall of a textile museum? No? Where will it be? On you? Ah. I see.
    Then, my dear, you should consider what will make the intended recipient most happy. The museum would be most concerned with authenticity. You should be most concerned with pleasing you. And if it will please you to have mindless rounds of soothing stockinette vs. the looming spectre of seams, then knit it in the round.
    I doubt that the Bohus guardians plan on swooping down from their Scandinavian Olympus to soundly punish you for deviating from their granite-laid patterning.

  260. Go for the seamless. Surprise coming from a person who’s blog is called “stitch a round”-yeh.
    I did not go thru the 800 comments so forgive me if someone has already suggested this but, I have found that if I join the body and knit for an inch, then pick up for the under arm and do the sleeve I get a much nicer join. I think your colors are stunning. Simply. Stunning.

  261. Did you ever hear the story about the new bride who fixed a roast for her husband? The first thing she did was cut two inches off the end. When he asked why she answered that her mother always did it. So they called the mother and her response was that her mother always cut two inches off the end. When Grandma was asked why, she laughed and told them that her pan was too small for a whole roast – she had to cut the two inches off so it would fit. The moral of the story is that you shouldn’t be bound by tradition unless you know there’s a valid reason for the tradition.

  262. The wrong side of stranded colorwork is pure knitter porn.
    I say knit it the way that makes you happiest (which “seams” to be in the round–haha!). Seriously, the whole point is to enjoy it. Right?

  263. I approach knitting the way the trite approach art: I don’t know what’s good (read: traditional), but I know what I like. If I were to run across a pattern I loved that was totally traditional, dandy. If I were to run across a modern interpretation I loved, sweet. If I were to run across a completely innovative, modern Dada of a pattern, great. I don’t really worry about tradition, in shorter words.
    As for all that seaming up stuff, I can’t begin to comment. I’ve not yet knit a sweater or anything else that might require seams. I am glad to read that some sweaters REQUIRE seams in order to hold their shape — it might make me think twice before trying to convert a piece-work sweater to a round sweater when I get there.

  264. If we didn’t ever let ourselves buck tradition, then there would never be any innovation. That’s true for knitting, and for life!
    I’m glad to learn what other people say about seaming.

  265. I understand your dilemma as I am currently drafting a pattern for a Cowichan sweater. Cowichans, it should be noted, are knit seamlessly, and they are known for both their heavy weight and their longevity. Include me in the group who cannot see how seams improve the weight – bearing quality of the sweater. The total weight of a light sweater is pulling on a thinner yarn, etc.
    Anywho, knit it in the round. If there were no innovation in knitting, there would be no variagated yarns, lace socks, machine washable socks, etc! PS If you have any opinions on cowichans, feel free to contact me.

  266. What a beautiful yoke! I love that you are asking questions 1 and 2–and have faith that whichever way you decide, the fact that you asked these questions and want to honor the history will make your work a tribute.

  267. Personally, I think knitting patterns, like recipes, are meant to be altered. If the structural integrity won’t be affected, why mess with seams?????

  268. Theoretically, I believe in breaking traditions; practiacally, I have a hard time actually carrying out the mutiny. That being said: as a seamstress, I’m thinking that perhaps the sweater needs seams for structure. The light weight of the wool might make the weight of the seams necessary to hold the garment in place and in shape. Providing limits, so to speak.

  269. How firm are we in our (are you in your) knowledge that the Bohus sleeves were knitted flat?
    I would knit the sleeves in the round for the simple fact that my gauge is slightly different when I knit flat. Since you are knitting the yoke (which, btw, is breathtakingly beautiful!) in the round…and the body in the round…keep that sweater smooth and seamless…and let’s face it really: we all have too many sweaters to change into to wear any of them out in our lifetime.

  270. Wow! Your use of color in your yoke is absolutely eye candy. I knit one of these (you can see on my website). I really used Lucia at Knitting Fiend blog alot. It really helped knitting the whole caboodle in the round. I have no seams whatsoever. I did do a couple of short rows underneath the armpit so it wouldn’t ride up any at the bottom. Yours is way prettier than mine. Thanks for the inspiration.

  271. 1. Not important.
    2. You would simply be adding to the history right now.
    3. My “seam-less” sweaters always seem to last longer.
    4. No, only if you really enjoy sewing up seams.
    5. You can never over-think a knitting project.
    I am a process knitter, so if I were making it, I would employ what ever techniques I enjoyed actually carrying out the most.

  272. To add my voice to the chorus.. knit it in the round. Then add bogus seams a la Elizabeth Zimmerman.
    I’ve been on an EZ binge these last few days. Forgive me.

  273. If everybody always knit things the way they’ve always been done, we wouldn’t HAVE Bohus sweaters or Aran sweaters, or Norwegian sweaters. Do you think Elizabeth Zimmermann would have hesitated a moment to do that sweater in the round? Go for it.
    And, BTW, your Snowflake painting from the other day reminds me of the new ROM. Except I like your Snowflake painting.

  274. Bohus knits were for sale, and if you want to take your work around with you, it’s easier to do it in pieces. Shetland shawls were originally knit in pieces for the same reason. Selbu knits were generally small anyway, and the Selbu knitters would knit on their mittens while walking to town. So maybe the Swedish Bohus knitters worked in pieces for the same reason. Sometimes the reasons aren’t technical, they’re practical.

  275. First of all, the sweater is GORGEOUS! The colors are beautiful, as well. The main reason for this post, however is the fact that you mentioned you knit with one needle tucked under your arm…could you post a picture of this? I have heard of this way of knitting, but I have never seen anyone do it! Love your blog!!!!!

  276. um, the door’s being opened too many times again, according to bloglines, lol.
    i think it’s possible to have both valentine love and real love. he got me exactly what i wanted (2 weeks ago, it was a kitchenaid mixer! woohoo (i’ve got a culinary arts degree, lol, this is as good as 20 lbs of koigu (per franklin, ya know))). and today, when i got home from picking the kids up at school and attending the school’s knitting club (the teacher told me i’ll have to come next year too, i’ll still have one kid attending that school!), i found roses, chocolate, and a card. and i gave him chocolates, a card, and cooked a delicious dinner (he doesn’t like to go out on busy nights like tonight). that’s the valentine love.
    the real love? we each have our own bank accounts, credit cards & houses (i had one before we got married, lol, we’re living in his while we refurbish mine, then we’ll rent his to my daughter and her roommate while we refurbish this one, then eventually sell both, and build in the country). he has taken my kids to his heart. and not just the “young” ones. (they’re 12 &14). the girls as well. she called on saturday, to ask if he could come up (20 miles away) and help move a mattress on sunday. his answer? as long as the weather holds, no problem (they were predicting nasties for sunday afternoon, that never s howed until monday night). he’s supported me in quitting my 9-5 job, so i can pursue my dreams, while taking better care of my kids & my mom (medical issues there). and i stay up a little later every night so he has coffee in the morning (he drinks it cold, blech!). and he doesn’t object if i go back to bed after he hops in the shower (at 445! yes, stephanie, there is such a time) we won’t even go into all the insanity that we’ve both been through with the boys, and other things (you’d have to read the blog, lol). maybe it helps that not only are we lovers, we are friends. that is real love.

  277. After your weekend at Winterlude I had to pass on this information ( although you’ve probably seen/heard it ++ by now…)
    The pictures for this can be found at http://www.capcan.ca/winterlude – just scroll down to the Snow Sculpture Competition section and enter the site – the winning team with the “knitting hands” are from Alberta – and here is an article on the sculpture….
    Knitting hands sew up top prize
    Edmonton artist’s creation the talk of Ottawa
    Tom McMillan, The Edmonton Journal
    Published: Tuesday, February 13, 2007
    EDMONTON – Will Truchon knew knitting didn’t seem like an obvious winter activity.
    The Edmonton artist took a top prize at Ottawa’s winter festival last weekend, winning the people’s choice award for his snow sculpture of two hands knitting a scarf.
    But while his three-person team liked the sculpture, Truchon says he never thought the design would win.
    “I was surprised. It was an unusual answer to the contest’s theme of dance and play, but I liked it,” said Truchon, artistic director of Edmonton’s Visual Arts Society.
    “I guess others did, too.”
    According to Truchon, the 18-foot-tall sculpture — titled Knitting Family Poems — is a symbol for Canadian winters. Knitting was a necessary part of winters past, he says, and it brought families together, kept them warm and just made life more enjoyable.
    For a competition celebrating winter, Truchon says knitting was a creative choice, and visitors seemed to get the message. He admits, though, that comments focused on the sculpture’s impressive size more than its theme.
    “People would talk about how realistic the hands were, but mostly it was the size,” Truchon says. “It is pretty monumental.”
    Thirteen teams from across Canada participated in Winterlude’s snow-carving event. Interested teams submitted proposals earlier this fall, and the best design from each province and territory was chosen.
    The teams carved their sculptures from blocks of snow over 12 feet high, weighing about 40 tonnes. Truchon says the team is exhausted after working 13-hour-days all last week to finish the sculpture
    The hard work paid off. Winterlude spokesperson Chantal Comeau says all the sculptures were well done, but Truchon’s received extra attention.
    “People definitely seemed to be talking about it all weekend,” Comeau says.
    Joining Truchon on the Alberta team were Red Deer’s Brian McArthur and Dawn Detarando. The team placed second at Winterlude in 2003 and 2006.
    © The Edmonton Journal 2007

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