Firstly, thank you for the outpouring of well wishes for my friend. Whether it was the strength of all of us lent to her or the miracles of modern medicine, she came through the surgery and this part of her journey very well. Your support was much, much appreciated.
Despite the massive wave of relief I’m feeling, I’m somehow suffering a nasty relapse of whatever cold/flu took me down two weeks ago. I’ve been trying to knit, but whatever congestion is in my lungs and nose seems to have spread to my brain, and I found myself totally unable to follow the written instructions for the cables for the collar of Juno. After two knitting sessions in which I knit, instead of the delicately interwoven cables that Rowan planned for me, some knitterly version of spaghetti, I finally ripped back the whole thing and made myself a cheat sheet.
It’s been a long time since I tried to knit cables from words instead of a chart and it seems like I’ve totally forgotten how. I kept loosing my place in a line, messing up C4B and C4R and dudes….why can’t the whole world just do it the way I like it and give me charts?
I like to be able to see what I’m knitting, and the beauty of charts is that I can take one look at the chart and one look at my knitting and see that I’m not making anything like the picture and know I’ve arsed it up again. With words I find it hard to see how they stack up. It’s possible of course, with my head less full of the products of a head cold, to read written instructions and “see” what it’s supposed to look like, but wouldn’t the addition of a chart make it way, way easier? Am I in the minority? Do the largest segment of knitters like the words?
Now, I’m not a pattern writer or a designer, just a lowly knitter with a nasty head cold and a slightly negative attitude right this minute (those two things are probably related) and I know that there are die hard “word” knitters who hate charts, but I wonder why the writers, publishers and designers don’t give us both? Is it cultural? Is it more expensive? Prohibitively so? What say you, anybody out there with an answer? Why not provide both words and charts on patterns?
sorry- I’m a cable by the words girl- I loose my place on charts and can’t always carry around a cookie sheet with magnets stuck to it to help me!
I wrote my lace book with text, with a head injury making charts indecipherable to me. My publisher, bless them, hired someone (bless HER for being willing to) to draw up charts to go with, so that everybody could use the way that works best for them.
My continued prayers for your friend, meantime, and I’m so glad you knit her her shawl!
I’m a chart lady personally. I think the difference is visual learners vs verbal learners. Tell me something as many times as you like, until you show me I’m the mental version of teflon.
I am TOTALLY with you- I like having BOTH chart and written directions. And our opinions matter because we are the ones using the durn things, designers or no.
And feel better soon!
CHARTS!! Every time, charts make it better. Funny though, I have to write intricate charts as words in the margin of the chart. Also, I have to follow a pattern – there’s no pattern writing here, no design work here, and honestly I’m in awe of anyone who can just whip something up without a pattern (for example, Wings for your friend). Feel better soon!
An while we are trying to get charts everywhere, lets make sure that it is one chart with all cable patterns. I lose my place in a big hurry when there are 3 – 4 different cables and all on their own chart with different row counts. If I can make one chart why can’t they?
I’m with you, I can’t keep my place if it’s not in a chart. I colour-code all the symbols too so I can look down, see the colour and cable (or lace) away without losing heaps of time trying to figure out where I am in the words.
Charts = love
I like having both a chart & a written description to back it up, whether it’s cables or lace. I do agree that once you get into a project it’s much easier to tell how you’re doing & where you are by looking at a chart.
Maybe there’s a cost factor involved for publishers? Or maybe it’s a matter of making them more aware of our needs & preferences?
I also like the option of both words and chart and I just bought a pattern for socks that does just that. http://siviaharding.com/JourneySock.html
I saw these in the store made up and had to have the pattern even though I am quite content to knit plain socks forever.
PS. I don’t have a clogged head and I am not on meds so why am I having so much trouble with the first knit row of a baby sweater border? I will try a fourth attempt tonight.
Charts baby…charts all the way (with a few extra words for support). Never thought I would be the type to want a chart over written description, but a visual of what to expect is always the way for me now. Of course, this is coming from someone who is fairly new to reading charts.
Glad your friend came through surgery ok! Have you heard from her about the shawl?
Lots of fluids and plenty of rest for you, though!! 🙂
I’m with you, Stephanie – I wish both was just the default. Then we could all be happy. I guess I can see arguments about space and word count for magazines or books. But, some magazines give so much online information – how about one version online?
Of course, sometimes I find it helpful do what you did and draw the chart, which gives me a little tactile familierity with the pattern before knitting it. . .
I dunno, but I think it’s neat how the universe gave you a break from the cold for you to knit the thing for your friend.
Maybe Rowan’s charting software went down at the last minute and they couldn’t fix it in time. Maybe they got lazy. Maybe the designer said NO CHARTS.
Charts… well done charts… are definitely the way to go. But also along with that, close ups of the product you are knitting help a lot too.
The best example of this has actually been a cross stitched chart that had a chart divided into appropriate segments in black and white and then a color one to go with. Helped alot.
Most knitting charts I have seen are pretty okay. But I agree, words and charts are the way to go.
Feel better!
I like the words! Even though it is easier to see whats happening (on supposed to be happening) with a chart, I find that they slow me down.
I’m glad that your friend’s surgery went well. I pray that she has a speedy recovery. You as well.
As for the chart . . . . I think that each side has taken an elitest “ha, I’ll show them” mentality geared that torturing those who prefer one way over the other.
Some days you’re the pigeon, some days you’re the statue. I guess today you’re the statue!
I’m all for charts. It’s almost to the point that the deciding factor in whether I will knit a pattern or not, is if it has a chart to follow.
I like both. I prefer charts; but sometimes there are mistakes in the chart, and sometimes there are mistakes in the words. When I have both I have a fighting chance of figuring out which (if either) is right.
I was trying to think which way I prefer and I realized it depended on where I was mentally. When I’m tired I want words, when I’m not I like charts. Hmmm…. I think it must go back to learning to crochet (sorry for the “C” word!) from my Grannie using her old patterns. Comfort knitting (to go with comfort food).
Charts scare me. I guess I just need a good chart reading lesson. Someday…
I think they should have both. I am terrified of charts, have a problem reading charts and if I had to read a chart in order to knit something, then it probably wouldn’t get knit. That being said, I have often wondered myself why the heck we couldn’t have both. Space constraints maybe??
When I first began knitting lace last year, I swore by the ‘word’ instructions and swore at the charts. Couldn’t figure them out at all. Then came the day I wanted to do a fancy lace and cable sock and it was only done on a chart. My words at that point don’t bear repeating, and a friend suggested that I just “translate” the chart into the written word. Well, once I’d started writing it down, I realized that I was reading a chart just fine, thank you very much, and didn’t need the word instructions at all. Doing anything difficult when you are dealing with a head cold, however, is a whole ‘nother story! Hang in there!
Hmm…charts and written in the same printing – Interweave Magazine would be huge, not to mention more expensive.
I’m a visual and verbal person, so both would be extremely helpful for me. Honestly I’d rather look at a garmet and knit to match it than read directions. I have a graph pad that stays with my knitting at all times for hand drawn graphs. But there are times when a graph just doesn’t cut it and I need things explained.
I’m with you on this one. A picture is worth a thousand words….and if it is charted, so much the better.
How can I know what it is supposed to look like, if I can’t see what I am doing?
Take screech (lucky you, we don’t get it in the states) and tea with honey and lemon, and feel better soon.
I have found that for me, it depends on what I am knitting. Most of the time, I use a mixture of both charts and written patterns. Sometimes my charts are very colorful from highlighting and most times have written notes in the margin. Usually my written patterns have hand-drawn charts to supplement them. Whatever works – that’s my motto!
This is an ongoing discussion in our little knitting group. I am totally verbal and prefer the words, but will use a chart. Another is totally visual, but can use the words. A third actually writes out the charts line by line (seriously, amazing to watch). A fourth knits Japanese-style, completely charted, measurements and all.
As to why not both in a book — probably cost of printing as it takes up more space. They would have either fewer patterns or a lot more pages.
Good to know your friend came through surgery fine – sending good thoughts for a swift and healthy recovery!
As for charts/written, I like both as one usually helps clarify the other…
Words vs Charts… It is a conspiracy I tell you! They are trying to keep us from uniting and taking over the world. Seriously.
I think they expect us to chart it out ourselves because the publishers are lazy. 🙂
Charts! They just make sense. It’s like eating breakfast. Words, they don’t always make sense or they make sense but not to the person trying to knit up the pattern. Words are more like an afternoon snack, sometimes they hit the spot, but sometimes you find yourself wondering why you didn’t just eat a bigger breakfast. Charts!
I’m with you on this one (minus the head cold, but allergies count for something in the congestion department, I think). I’m currently working on Elsebeth Lasvold’s “Ljod” from her Book One The Viking Knits Collection and the chart is so easy to follow. I know exactly what my knitting is supposed to look like and exactly where I’ve messed up on the inevitable moments when I do. (I don’t always know why I messed up but that’s not Elsebeth’s fault).
I’m glad to hear your friend is doing well. The shawl was so beautiful.
Both! I’m not very good yet at reading charts, but I’m practising to get better. If there’s something you don’t understand in the one, you can go to the other for help before you get completely confused. Why not have both and make everyone happy?
I’m a words person. For some reason charts confuse me- maybe they remind me too much of my nursing years and all the charts I had to fill out then. Funny thing is, I can do counted cross stitch without problems. For intricate, repeating patterns, I write the directions out on 3×5 cards, and put them on a loose leaf ring. Sometimes, with long patterns, I just copy, cut and paste. It keeps the pattern together, and I know where to start the next time I pick up my knitting because I am turned to the card for the next row to knit- as long as the kiddos don’t play with the cards.
Yeah for your friend. Now it’s time for her to do some serious healing. A bit of rose quartz should do the trick, don’tcha think? >winkwink<
I have felt the same way about charts and words for as long as I have been a knitter. What’s up with that? Would it REALLY put them out that much to provide both with a pattern. Honestly, I think more people would do more patterns if the instructions were available in both formats. . . .
It’s the muggles in the business of publishing. They don’t understand.
I prefer words.
I realize that some people “see” it better with the charts, but I re-write charts into words.
Glad to hear your friend has come through surgery and recovering alright…will continue to stream the healing thoughts to her….and to you, missy.
Charts. Written is nice to have there also, and it should be there WITH the charts. I loves me a good chart.
I like charts. I cut my teeth on Branching Out from Knitty (lace) and went next to Eris by Jenna @ Girl from Auntie (cables). I now LOVE charts!
April
Everyone learns differently. Some are auditory learners, some sequintial, some visual. Fotunately there are charts and written directions for us all! The trick is to figure out which you are and go for that every time! God bless educators! They have my gratitude forever! If you can read this……Thank a teacher. As for the rest of us, BAD SPELLERS OF THE WORLD…….UNTIE!
I like charts, too. Much easier.
I have a question…I apparently am the World’s Slowest Knitter! (That’s not the question, that’s a fact!) How do you accomplish so much in such a short period of time? Many times I don’t tackle a project because it is large and I know it will take me a long time to complete. Any words of advice?
Thanks!
Both. I am new to charts so I start with the words and then look to the chart to “see” what the words turn into. BTW, do you use a cable needle when doing cables or no?
I hope the best for your friend, I have been through this with my father and baby niece. I was wondering how many skiens of yarn your linie 194 solo scarf took and what size needles you made it with?
~Laura
I am very happy to hear your friend did well with the surgery. Best wishes to her.
I much prefer charts. There’s a higher likelihood that I’ll mess up the cables when I only have words to work from. Another missing feature from patterns that I’ve seen and find incredibly horrible is when there is no diagram for measurements. Hey, I’m knitting, I don’t want to stop to do all the math. There’s enough of that as it is!
On a completely unrelated note – I think I channeled your harlotness recently. I was asked to do a presentation on new yarns, tools, knitting techniques, etc. to a women’s church group (average age – 75). They handed me a microphone and suddenly I felt like a stand-up comedian (after the initial sweating stopped). I extolled the virtues of soft merino wool, alpaca (they’d not heard of it) and had them gasping when I brought out the light-up needles (just for shock, I prefer bamboo). By the end of it all, one of them had wrapped several of my creations around her neck and shoulders and was zinging in and out of the tables in her wheel chair and another woman did the catwalk sporting a beautiful alpaca shawl…then they asked me to join their club.
The next day, several of them landed at the yarn store I frequent and and bought up all the knit clips and row counters and merino wool. I was so amazed at the impact (on them and me!).. it was like magical, you know?
Yeah, why don’t they use both? It’s easy enough to do with the right software. I like to use both at the same time as some things I find easier with words, others with symbols. Actually, I tend to rewrite (or in the case of charts, remark) directions in a way that makes sense to me. Still, it’d be good to have both available.
I’m a word person. I see how the charts may be loved by some but I don’t even buy a pattern/book/magazine unless the written version is available. If I see a garment that simply must be made, I will write the directions out from the chart but this has only happened once so far.
Hope you feel better soon and great news that your friend has come through her surgery well. I still have the rose quartz in my pocket though and will keep it there for awhile for her.
Wown, I’m the other way around – keep on counting in a nice rhuthmic fashion. Charts on the other hand are way too confusing…
Email me a copy of the pattern. I have a handy dandy program that coverts crazy knitting words into charts. My gift to you for being a positive force for good.
I used to be a cable-by-words girl — wanting to knit St. Brigid made me switch to charts and now I prefer them. Off the cuff, I was going to say that there would be more chance for error if publishers provided both — but, actually, I think having both might make it easier and quicker to track down errors.
I’ve been known to make a chart of a pattern for my own use (sometimes a really big — maybe even life-size and in-color chart) using Excel.
Glad to see that your friend is doing well post-op. I hope that you feel better, too. You’re a good soul & she’s lucky to have you on her side.
I’m a charter, myself. I find that I have to chart out instructions for lace & cable patterns if there are none provided. How else can one figure out if they’re on track with their lace?
I’m with you — I charted up the collar before I even got started knitting it. What’s even more annoying than having it written out was that the definitions were all on the previous page. They should at least put all of that info together, IMHO.
Charts are SO helpful, especially with lace. I can knit cables with words if I have to, but a chart makes it much easier. I also think you memorize your stitch pattern quicker with charts.
While we are putting our 2 cents in, can we also request that every pattern include a schematic so you can see the basic shapes and how they go together? Seeing the proportions really helps me.
I’m so glad your friend’s surgery was successful, but I’m sorry you’re feeling poorly.
I have input on the question about charts/words for patterns:
I think it’s space-related (not outer space, but physical, printed page space). Words can be mushed into very small spaces while charts cannot be (and still be legible, that is), so you often see entire patterns for garments take up less than 1 single page because the font has been reduced, the paragraph spacing crunched, etc. It’s nigh on impossible to do that with charts.
That’s my impression, coming from a (non-knitting) publishing background where I learned that the bottom line fuels a lot of “creative” decisions.
Ohh… I wish I could use charts. I haven’t sat down and made myself learn how to use them yet. I learned how to knit with written instructions and charts make my head spin. Although I bet if I bothered to learn how to use them, I’d be all like, “Oh, why did I ever do it the other way?”
I think to each their own, all patterns should have BOTH.
It’s been so long since I’ve done cables, but I think I prefer words. That would explain why, every time I see a chart these days, I shudder and move on to a different pattern. Intarsia, no problem. Charts? [runs screaming from the room]
I am guessing that your flu relapse has a great deal to do with your friend’s illness. You pushed yourself too hard.
Take care of YOU now.
I agree– charts are the best! I usually chart out anything that’s just written in words.
I’ve not knit anything with complicated cables yet – just simple, one-cable, 6-or-so row repeats. But so far for me I like both – it depends on the project I guess. And my giess would be that the people writing the patterns use either what they prefer, or what their publisher asks for.
What I did recently discover (by watching you on Knitty Gritty – you were AWESOME!) is that you’re a “thrower like me – for some reason I thought you were a continental knitter. You have no idea how excited my friend and I were – “OOh LOOK! She knits like US!! Oooooohhh!!!!” *LOL*
Glad to hear that your friend is doing well after surgery. It is clear, however, that you are not; otherwise you would not have followed a post about a seriously ill friend with a second post labeled “please pass the tissues.” It gave me pause.
So get some sleep and feel better soon!
p.s. I used to be a word person but now I am charts all the way.
I am so glad your friend is doing well. I’ll continue the healing thoughts.
Funny you should ask this about patterns, because I just did a poll on the very same question. My conclusion (based on a much smaller data pool than you’re likely to get, actually than you’ve already got) was that a few people like words, more people like charts, and most people like to have both so that they can check one against the other if something is confusing. For cables, I myself really like charts of the style you’re drawing, the Barbara Walker style (my poll did not address the question of whether the symbology and general clarity of the chart matter; I may have to do another one). I find myself somewhat confused by charts where there are a lot of “made” stitches that eventually get decreased out of existence again, so you end up with lots of black space (or x’s, if you’re Walker) in the middle of the chart.
I recently wrote a pattern for a rather simple lace scarf, and I found it easiest to do the chart for the scarf body, although I did bite the bullet and write out the words for people who like words. The scarf has a border/edge that continues around one corner and across each end, becoming a bind-off. I could not figure out how to show this process with a chart, so I described it in words. (I don’t think anyone else has made the scarf yet, so I don’t know if people would be confused by this or not.)
I can understand why patterns have both words and charts, but I don’t know why any designer would write a pattern without charts. I find it an extremely royal pain in the neck to write out “k1, p2, c4b, p2…” for 50 or more sts. It’s unbelievably easy to make a mistake and stick an extra “k2, p2” in there; I proofread my words 5 times against the chart and also get someone else to do it if I can, just to make sure they match.
I’m a chart kinda gal too, but I wasn’t always. About 18 years ago I re-wrote a perfectly beautiful chart in VK. It was easily 30+ rows and over the period of a couple of weeks while I was on an easy temp assignment I wrote out the instructions, checked them & corrected them a couple of times just so that I could knit the sweater from words.
It actually gave me a real appreciation for designers who write out instructions because I still found a couple of mistakes during the knitting!
I like words for cables best. Can’t see the little boxes very well with my trifocals. So if I have to K14, I knit 14 and not something altogether wrong when I try to count it out and later discover the error on the next row.
Most people strongly prefer either words or charts. Designers are the same way, of course, and tend to write up their patterns in their method of choice.
I assume publishers would prefer not to go through the hassle and expense of hiring a second person to write up the pattern “the other way.” So really, the blame should be laid at the feet of the person who created the pattern.
Personally, I think publishers should reject patterns which aren’t submitted in both words and charts. It strikes me as being half-assed to submit it either one way or the other. Then again, I’ve never created or published a pattern that would be eligible for a chart, so what do I know?
Ohhhh, charts – they kinda freak me out. reading from right to left!! I think that would be a great project for a swatch – learn to read a chart!! Ohhh, perhaps something to keep in mind for Knitting Olympics!!
Charts, charts please for me! I cannot knit from words at all. I use a lot of German and French patterns, where charts are the standard. The first time I came across a very wordy Rowan pattern, I thought something had gone seriously wrong! Since then, I have learned that some of you can actually knit from words, and get nightmares from looking at a charted pattern. Publishers should accept this, and provide patterns for all of us, charty or wordy!
Words AND charts! Amen, Sister Friend! How else will the inexperienced knitter ever learn the reading of the charts?
I CAN do both, but much prefer words. Only because it is more convenient to carry around a ring of brightly colored index cards than a paper chart with stickies to keep my place. I’d opt to have both, though, if I ran the world.
(I converted a 54 row lace pattern to about 27 cards, the WS was purl, even I didn’t need to write that down. It was lots of upfront work, but the payoff for traveling was huge!)
I like the words. Charts are ok for me if they’re big enough, but if they’re too small I feel a little dyslexic and get all disoriented. What I really need to go w/ my words is a good picture of the finished product (not one of those backlit Vogue things that’s really just a picture of some model’s hair…)
I first learned complicated patterns using words, and am just beginning to understand charts. I guess I think it has to do with what you did the first time you tried something new. I think charts are fine, but the symbols are not standardized, so I always feel as though I have to learn everything all over again for each one. If they symbology were made standard the world over, knitting would TRULY be the most beautiful international language!
I’m very happy to hear that your friend came thru surgery well.
I have only been knitting for a little over a year, but I’m words only…charts scare me a bit. I understand their place in knitting books but I would have to write it out. I would get totally confused and lost trying to knit from a chart.
A picture is worth a thousand words….and if it is charted, so much the better.
Why did Gail G have to beat me to this comment? Well, I guess it goes to show that great minds think alike. I get lost in word directions very easily, and would much rather have a chart to compare my work to. That said, sometimes I need the words to explain wth is going on on the chart. Best would be having both, to make it work for everyone. But I suppose that would make sense (and as we all know, we can’t have that). /bitter
I did my first lace project (a Faroese Peaks shawl) using words rather than the chart, because frankly I was afraid of charts. Now that I have knit a couple of Cookie’s socks by using the chart, I’m not so afraid anymore. But I do like having both since I’m not entirely used to the charts yet.
Both, actually!!! It took the combination for me to be able to understand the charts initially. I prefer using charts now, because it’s easier to see what I’m doing (and inevitably, what I’ve screwed up)
Glad to hear that your friend is doing okay. I read the post twice, and cried both times.
Words and charts, both — what a concept! Actually, I much, much, much prefer charts for lace, but for cables I like words. Not sure why!
And thanks for the update on your friends — I’m glad she’s doing okay. And you — get well soon!
It’s a lot easier to see errors in charts, since the chart looks more or less like the knitting pattern is supposed to. Plus, there’s a lot of room for interpretation in written instructions. Several times I’ve had to count stitches as written for the rest of the row to figure out whether “increase five” meant “increase five in next stitch” or “increase one in each of next five stitches.” (For the record, it’s been both.) A chart would have to have separate symbols for each of these instructions.
Still, I think that it would be good if patterns offered both charts and words, even if one was only available online. Maybe we should start a petition? I seem to recall that Vogue Knitting added charts for subsequent printings of its Cables Stitchionary books after a rather vocal public outcry.
so happy for your friend…Praise Be.
Charts. SO much better!!!
I like the suggestion of charts on line if they didn’t want to publish.
Honey, you need, and deserve, a vacation. If you can’t get to a nice beach somewhere, at least limit your knitting to washcloths for a day or two. Feel better soon.
I’m afraid my knitting is not advanced enough to weigh in on charts or words, but I am worried about your “cold.” It sounds like it could be worse than a cold, and I would get it checked out if I were you. Pretty please with sugar on top?
I loved your shawl – that was so thoughtful. I’m sure your friend will treasure it. I will think warm thoughts for your friend and you!
That “crud” is just now lifting since Camp. You think you are better, then it is back again. I gave up and took antibiotics and it still tried to come back. They were happy germs down in my lungs. Trust me…”I feel your pain.”
I like words…AND charts. I know charts take up more space, so magazines don’t love them. But hey, they are supposed to be serving us, the reasonably knowledgable knitters out there. I don’t expect pablum, but it would be nice to give us the tools to make a respectable version of the designer’s vision. Certainly it should be de rigeur for purchased patterns.
BTW, your description of your collar reminded me of “Cables after Whiskey”. So it didn’t look so great on a collar, heh?
Glad your friend is good so far.
Charts, baby!!!! I was afraid of lace until I started using a chart, a magnet board and multiple colors of highlighters. Now, I fear no lace!!!! Ditto for cables. Just give me the words to explain the symbols and let me loose.
I can read charts, but do prefer it written. I’m going to swatch the pattern to begin with, then work largely on memory, and written makes it easier to quick-check ‘does this have nine stitches here or ten?’ than having to count them out on a chart.
and I won’t venture to step in the ‘why not both’ morass.
-C
Sorry you don’t feel good – sounds as though the cold/flu thing held off long enough for you to finish the Big Pink Thing and then it made it’s come back – get some rest and take care of yourself!
I love the charts.
charts + text means double the editing, double the error-checking, double the writing, and more than double the space. I know most of us are willing to pay for it, but I am not sure the publishers do. 🙂
Took me a while to finally get used to charts, but I do like them more than the words now. But mind you, I can still screw up a chart without giving it a second thought. Ask me how I know?
Sorry about the cold thing. I, too, had a relapse and it’s finally taken me 6 weeks, but I am over it. Now a word of advice for you on something to do to make it feel better — do a sinus rinse. Try this: http://www.unimedprod.com/products.shtml
I swear it works. Even the doctors here recommend this.
I am so glad to hear that all our positive healing thoughts helped your friend (& I’m sure the big pink thing helped even more). I had the same thing happen with my cold. I was quite ill when you were here in Oakbrook (causing me to miss you – boo hoo) & then got mostly better. Then I spent most of 2 weeks at my DD’s & the grands were kind enough to expose me again. Not sure if it was just a relapse or a whole new cold but the 2nd round was way worse than the first. I am just beginning to feel a bit better after over 2 weeks. I actually used up an entire bottle of Nyquil – first time ever) & still have some congestion & a slight cough but at least feel like I’ll live now! I’m a cables by words knitter all the way but agree with you entirely about patterns having both. What’s the big deal? We generally pay a good bit ($40 for AS is not uncommon) & how often do you knit more than one or 2 patterns from a book? For those prices, we should get BOTH words & charts. Of course, I also think that those pricey knitting books should not have a gazillion errors in them but that seems a pipe dream also.
So glad to hear good news of your friend. I’ll keep her in my prayers as her journey continues. As to your cold/flu/yuckiness – I’m a firm believer that as long as I keep moving the germs can’t catch me. The minute I slow down or relax – WHAMMO – the germs catch up and knock me down! Perhaps the stress/work/worry you’ve been dealing with has kept you going, but I’m guessing you’ve relaxed a wee bit after the shawl and the good news – WHAMMO – they gotcha. I find sleep helps, a little Screech wouldn’t go awry and getting back up to speed will chase the germs out. Good luck to you and your friend. And BTW – charts for me – I need the visual. But words help too.
Chris
I was a word die-hard until a year or so ago, and now I’m a total chart convert. (Could it be that the reason I wasn’t a chart-lover before was that I hadn’t had the sense or the guts to try charts? Um… yup.) Now I can’t believe I ever did cables – or lace – from anything but charts. The first thing I do when confronted with a written-out stitch pattern is graph it. And I *ALWAYS* provide both when I write a pattern – because [A] different people’s minds and perceptions work differently; [B] there are some things you can express more clearly in charts than in words and vice versa; and [C] the two corroborate and support each other. If, heaven forfend, I make a mistake in one (which happens agonizingly often despite hours of testing and blinkered proofreading), odds are the other will be correct. At least, that’s the theory….
Both! Both! Both! Charts are great if I “get” the pattern, but if I’m just not catching on, I can follow the words blindly and come up with what I’m supposed to (usually leading to an Aha! moment.)
What a beautiful shawl! Your friend cannot help but feel better wrapped up in a cloud of rose colored Socks That Rock. I learned to knit cables back in the dark ages before charting became popular but found transitioning to them relatively easy. I like the idea of being able to visualize the whole design at a glance. The only difficulty I have is remembering that sometimes the same symbol means different things on the right and wrong side.
I do a lot of two color knitting (double knitting) and I like to read it in words but I also have to have a chart to look at while I’m doing it. I agree with the person who said when there are made stitches it’s confusing on a chart. Knitting is hard, and I think you make a mental leap either way from the page to the needles.
For your friend, a Bible quote:As an eagle stirreth up her nest, fluttereth over her young,spreadeth abroad her wings, taketh them, beareth them on her wings: So the Lord alone did lead him, and there was no strange god with him. (Deuteronomy 32:11,12) for her, that could mean whatever her closest, most familiar sense of God is, is with her. And she is in my prayers. Beautiful shawl.
I had the same cold/whatever. I finally asked persons at church to pray for me and I got healed. Nothing like the laying on of hands – very powerful.
I am so with you about cables, I am working one right now and am wondering how they got by with writing this stuff!~!@#$and why isn’t there a standard! Of course that has been asked way too many times!
I like charts, but I don’t know how to make them on the compy, so of the few patterns I’ve written up none of them have included a chart.
Hey, I wanted to let you know that I got all inspired by that time you knit a sock a day for like two weeks, so I and some other crazies are going to follow in your footsteps… but only once. read about it here: http://everwhelming.blogspot.com/2007/05/sock-in-day.html
You know, if the cold will allow you to stare at the computer a little longer 😉 feel better!
I blather on about this ad nauseum. As an instructional designer, the industry is doing it “wrong” by not providing both. We all use our brains differently to process information. Some need the chart (like me), some need the words, and there are some that need to hear it (yarn stores will tell you this).
My dream is to make the big bucks writing knitting patterns correctly (and getting free patterns and yarn in the process). Actually I probably would do it just for the patterns and yarn. Whose the harlot now?
I think it probably has something to do with the designer’s preference. If he or she is a chart person, you’ll get charts; if he or she is word person, you’ll get words. Occasionally you’ll get lucky and get the designer who includes both (and who clearly is enlighted, because s/he has realized that there are different kinds of knitters out there who need different types of instructions). Personally, I prefer charts for some things (like lace) and words for others. It all depends on the project.
Okay, I never (well, almost never) comment. I just figure someone will say what I am thinking, and someone usually does. But this topic does get me off the dime to type my thoughts.
Like many, I am a word cable knitter. Yes, I still make mistakes, but being a writer by profession, I think I just see the words clearer. Over time, I begin to recognize each step of the pattern, see how they fit and relate, and I speed up as I go. But yes, I think pattern writers should supply both words and charts.
But, sticking to the topic of word instructions, lots of improvements could be made in that area alone. I am currently working on a lovely cotton cabled cardigan (say that 3 times fast!), and the pattern is awful. To save space (meaning that the picture is on one side and the pattern on the other, leaving little room for anything), the pattern writer wrote out the various cable patterns, and then wrote out the instructions for each piece, in which the order of the cable patterns is also given. All the rows are jumbled together (separate lines would waste space, don’t ya know?) and the type face is tiny.
After checking the pattern for the piece you are working on for overall instructions such as armhole decreases, you then need to reference the order of the cables to determine which one you need next, then find that individual cable pattern, and hunt for the row you are currently working. Whew! After many major mistakes involving what seemed like more ripping than knitting, I ended up making a chart for the word cable patterns! Really, cables are tough enough without having to translate and re-engineer the pattern.
I’m not usually one in favor of legislating standards, but patterns could benefit by some common sense.
Thanks for “listening.” Vicky
I’m so glad to hear that your friend’s surgery went well. Now onto a speedy recovery! (For both of you.) I personally find charts easier to follow, although I don’t think it would kill anyone to have both.
Great news of your friend ,thank you for letting us know she has survived the battle of surgery. Bad news that you have yet another cold flu whatever . As for charts and written words, well cold or not sometimes I have a terrible time following either of them and everything goes screwy. I’d never undertake that sweater . good luck to you and good vibes continued for yur friend
Dear Stephanie: I was a normal human being who liked to knit until I read Mediations for Women who Knit Too Much. I didn’t even think the title fit me. Then I read Knitting Rules and Debbie McComber and your next book. Meanwhile I knit 5 hats, one sweater, three pairs of socks, mitts,etc. I buy wool, a lot of wool, expensive wool, YARN! My productivity has gone down at work because I’m checking your website and all the other websites the nice lady at the YARN shop gave me. I’ve bought expensive needles. Who knew they really do make a difference. I can’t stop! My friends are talking intervention! I knit at meetings!
Oh, I like words for texture and charts for colour. I think they should put both in the patterns as they cost enough!
…and pictures! Words and charts and PICTURES! 🙂 I like to see what it is supposed to be because I can’t always visualize where it’s going!
Hope you soon get over whatever it getting over on you. Prayers will continue for your friend.
I’m so glad your friend made it through the surgery! The good wishes will keep going for her.
And sorry you’re sick. Dumb question — have you checked your heater vents? I went through about 3 months of ever-increasing sickness only to find out it was all caused by mold in my ductwork. Once cleaned, I was fine.
Uh — does it county if I say both? I can’t reach cable written instructions to save my soul. And I screw up charts. But if I have the chart, I can write it out in my own instructions — and voila, my NaCraga was done.
Glad your friend is okay,
i prefer words, if i have only a chart i write it out in words. as it is easier for me, i think the patterns should have charts and also words.
I’m with you-I like to be able to see what I’m doing. I absolutely refuse to knit lace from words, it makes no sense to me. I’m working on a shawl now from Anne at knitspot and she put words and charts, so I don’t know why other people wouldn’t.
I need words. I have a small stack of patterns that I fear I will never knit because I simply can’t make sense of charts at all.
The one time I tried to use one of the charts, I ended up with a wrong stitch count on every row. I tried it 5 times and every time everything turned out differently wrong, no matter what I thought the little symbols meant, they went wandering and gamboling all over the place. It made me feel sick and frustrated and angry – not the sort of feelings I want from knitting.
It’s like trying to read Attic Greek for me. I do not understand why – in this age of cheap web space – designers don’t publish the other version online with a web site and password key on the printed pattern.
Until recently, I only liked the written word to follow a pattern. As a semi-new knitter, it was just plain and simple. Now I like both and am very content.
So happy to hear that your friend made it through surgery ok!
Hope you are feeling better soon 🙂
Glad the surgery went well, must have been the giant hug you sent her way 😉
I’m a words girl, which is odd because I’m a textile artist and work a lot with visual prompts, but charts just get me discombubilated, hence the cross stitch I’ve been working on for the past 12 years!
I’m thinking this needs to be turned into a scifi story or a Twilight Zone episode, where everyone else claims they have charts and words ALL THE TIME, and one poor knitter with a head cold only gets words; the charts disappear whenever she looks at the pattern.
Or something like that.
But, wouldn’t it blow your mind if we had all said, “Oh, my copy of that pattern came with a chart, didn’t yours?”
Here here!!! I actually like both, but if I’m doing bus knitting, I prefer words if I’m at home I love charts…
And I’m thrilled to hear your friend came through surgery well. Here’s hoping recovery goes just as smoothly…(see? The power of knitted items is amazing)
I am a charts person. the book has both. in fact I think everything i’ve done has used both. i don’t know why some publishers/designers cling to the idea of using only one method of conveying information.
i secretly love japanese patterns. i wish we did them all like THAT.
Glad to hear your friend came through her surgery ok.
I’m in the chart camp myself. Love seeing how things are supposed to go.
As to why there are not more charts out there, I can give you one reason. They can be a pain in the arse for the person doing the layout work. And some layout people HATE the things. But, it that is what the company is paying you to produce, you suck it up and do it.
Hope you feel better soon. The weather is far to nice to be stuck indoors sick.
Charts, please…especially if it includes an outline drawing of the hoped for dimensions when the garment is finished. I find no need for words, unless there’s a mistake in the chart. And then the words should be, “I’m so sorry. Here’s your money back.”
Have been thinking of your friend and others who are facing stressful times with health issues.
I’m definitely a chart person. In fact, I’ll do up a chart for most patterns that are words only (unless it’s a really simple cable pattern). Ironic that I’m a visual person, seeing as I’m a musician; I can’t remember a melody until I see it written down. Anyway, what bugs me as much as patterns with no charts is patterns with no schematics! Like the ones that just list some of the measurements without showing you a picture.
I vote with everyone who said both. Fear of chart reading ought to be listed as a phobia — maybe it is — although this knitter finally overcame it by taking a fair isle class! Sort of a knitter version of “immersion” therapy. There’s just no doing fair isle w/o reading a chart!
Continuing best wishes for your friend’s recovery.
I can only follow a chart if the stitch count remains the same in each row/round. Otherwise, give me words, please. But I break up the words for row by row, typcially on an index card, and just shuffle through as I go.
I can follow a pattern either way, I can’t recall ever translating a pattern that only had a chart or only had words to the other format. I have to admit though, that i prefer words. If a pattern has both available, I almost always ignore the chart and follow the written directions.
I haven’t read all the comments, but I am sure I am in the minority when I say that I HATE CHARTS and LOVE written instructions. I cannot make heads or tails of charts, no matter how many tutorials I read. It’s why I’ve yet to knit anything cabled or colorwork, because the majority of patterns for those things are charted only. Written directions I can follow. Squiggly lines and cryptic symbols in a graph? Not so much.
First, prayers for your friend. Second, words for me, although I’m trying to learn to read charts. And last, this might make you feel a bit better: the ONLY blogger mentioned in the online resources in Judith MacKenzie McCuin’s new books is…..YARN HARLOT! Whoohoo!
So sorry your recent affliction has returned. Hope you’re much better real soon. I find lately that most patterns do indeed provide both written text and chart. If I am unsure of something it makes it great to be able to check with the other to be sure I’m right. Hope your friend has a speedy and complete recovery…Amen, Ruth in NJ
I am a visual learner, as a general rule, so my natural inclination would be to say CHARTS. Sadly, though, I’ve never learned to read published charts and I really am pretty fond of written instructions. I know it is a mental thing but published charts look like hieroglyphics to me. (I really do need to take the time to learn the symbols, etc. After all, I can do cross stitch and embroidery.) Frequently, though, with a more than basic knitting pattern, I end up creating my own charts, usually in Excel. And if I make up a pattern, I always “draw” it in excel then write out the instructions for myself to knit from. Screwy, huh?
Add me to the both list! I usually go by the chart, but like to have the words as a back up in case something isn’t looking right. Especially if it turns out there’s an error in the pattern, it’s less likely they’ve done the same boo-boo in the same way in both places. Not that that ever happens… 🙂
Charts are visual spaghetti to me. Give me words any day – BUT that said, I think pattern writers need to accommodate both types of learners and provide charts also. And can we talk about those pattern writers who don’t give us schematics?
So happy to hear that your friend is doing well today. One – day – at – a – time…and it really is a reminder that we all need to appreciate every day as we live it.
“Why not provide both words and charts on patterns?”
Yes!!!! I utterly, completely and wholeheartedly agree. I’ve been wondering this since I began knitting. Surely it’s not cost prohibitive to include both, and it would suit both types of knitters. I have to be multimodal in my profession; it’d be nice to see it in knit design too.
Continuing with thoughts and prayer for your friend. Reading your previous entry about her and Big Pink made me cry.
Glad to hear the BPT is working. I will continue to have your friend in my thoughts.
And I will continue to have you in my thoughts. Down, virus, down! Leave our Harlot alone – she has important knitting to do!
I am a recent convert to charts. i haven’t cabled from them yet, but expect to have the experience be just as clear and efficient as knitting lace. Having both are a good thing, if for no other reason than to double check things and clear up any foggy bits.
Years ago I made an Aran-style afghan with 3 or 4 different cable patterns across its width – each one with a different row repeat, of course. My solution was to write a computer program (best use of my time at work, of course!) to print out a spreadsheet (although I didn’t call it that then) which numbered the rows of the afghan down the side and then listed whatever pattern row was required in the columns across. Since most cable patterns only have an “action row” a few times in each repeat, I convinced the computer to print an asterisk next to those row numbers. I just knit my way down the chart (I had printed 400 rows, but it did not take that many) until the afghan was large enough. This was just enough organization to help me keep track of what was going on. Not the same as charts today, but it did the trick!
To use educational jargon (Hey! I’m a teacher! So sue me!), I am visual-kinesthetic. Means I gotta see it, then I gotta do it. For regular Zen-knitting (ohmmmmmmmmmm), words are fine. If there is a design — as in cabling or lace — I gotta have a picture. It’s just so much easier and I don’t go cross-eyed looking at the rows and KNOWING I’ve lost my place!
I understand the Japanese do ALL their knitting via charts. If Lene Alve can purchase Nordic Knitting by a Japanese writer, then charts MUST be universal!
As a cancer survivor — all my best thoughts to your friend. Tell her there are a lot of us out here!
BOTH!! I like having both. I am a newbie though, and even though I have a chart, find myself checking the the words to make sure I am not a total nut job.
Wish there was a great more portable way to keep track of my place on a chart.
I want both. I do need the written word but a chart would help also. I’m with whoever wrote to put them all on one chart. I too dislike two or three separate charts. I also need to remember the one about color coding the symbols. Now why haven’t I thought of that before. (;>)
I like words, I often have trouble understanding the charts. Just take what the pattern say line by line… maybe you should take a nap….then go back to knitting.
Happy knitting/feel better,
Karoline<3
P.S. your friend is in my prayers!
I don’t know if anyone has suggested this already, but you can convert written instructions into a cable graph chart here: http://sweaterproject.org/visiknit/
Good luck!
I, too, have a nasty head cold! It’s funny how you don’t appreciate being able to breathe through your nose until you can’t!!! I am a relatively new lace knitter, but totally agree with you about charts. I love them!!! I get lost in those wordy paragraphs of directions before I am through one line! Bring on the charts!
Glad your friend came through her surgery well. We will still keep her in our thoughts and prayers. The “big pink thing” was lovely. Thanks for showing us how you worked out the pattern from your stitch dictionarys. Very interesting reading!
Feel better soon!
I like to have the words. In fact, I have went so far as to write out charts so it is easier for me to knit. If it is a really simple chart, I can do it, but cable charts just have too many symbols. I like to look at the chart and get a general idea of what it should look like, but as far as actually knitting I prefer to simply be told. I think that I am just a little to lazy to remember all the symbols.
I hope your friend gets better. It is good that they could do surgery and it went well.
Gimme charts!!! But, make sure the charts don’t have mistakes!!!!
Since I never managed the knitting lingo in any language, I prefer charts. And to charts I prefer pictures.
Since I never knitted from a pattern – I see a picture, I adapt it to my ways (like no sewing never ever, I cannot do it so I don’t do it), then I do a bit of sampling (not a rule, though), a bit of measuring, lots of indecipherable sketches and calculations and then I make a few final scribblings – if they and the mental image occupy more than a usual post-it piece of paper, it’s a bad project:D
And now I’m off to ripping that sweater that I knitted over the weekend and that came a bit too small. Like two sizes. I have only five centimetres of the yarn left.
Sigh.
And yes, I do believe that knitting can cure cancer. Go on, Steph, maybe some matching socks could be nice. My late great-grandma had a theory that all peeing related problems are a result of cold feet and she died at 88 or so of leukemia:D
How about: a clear photograph (front and back) of the knitted or crocheted item AND written directions AND charts. Is this asking too much?
This is exactly why that MDK Moderne Log Cabin Blanket with its endless kilometres of garter stitch seemed like such a good idea at the time.
GAH! Uncharted?! I am re-examining my plan to knit this pattern. And I agree with Carla.
Charts win 6-0. WYSIWYK!
I’m lefthanded – and while many maneuvers are the same whether you knit right or left handed, others are NOT. A chart allows me to modify my stitches as needed much more easily, because the end product is right there in front of me.
I’m glad to hear that your friend came through surgery well. Continued best wishes for her recovery.
With regards to charts vs. written instructions, I suspect you’ll get a lot of people who lean strongly one way or the other. That’s what I observed when doing research on various knitting message boards. I’m a chart person myself, but when I heard many people saying they couldn’t stand charts I decided to write my patterns with both.
Publications that are reluctant to print both make their decision based on cost. Real estate = money. Is it prohibitively expensive? I’m sure in some publishers’ eyes it is.
From a pattern writer’s perspective, providing both the written instructions and charts = more work. I find it interesting that some patterns which lend themselves to charts quite easily are written out. But then again maybe the designer is one of those people who hate charts so she/he wouldn’t provide a chart unless threatened with bodily harm.
it is hard to imagine knitting WITHOUT a chart. i feel your pain! speedy recovery!
Before I learned how to read charts, I was kind of scared of them (for no really good reason of course), so for a while I preferred written instructions. I really wanted to make Rogue though, and that came with charts so I sucked it up and learned how to read them and finally realize that it is MUCH easier to read a chart than to try to keep track of written lines.
I’m a chart girl. And I’m with you. I can see exactly where I am in a pattern by looking at the chart/my work. I can’t stand doing a pattern that’s all written out.
I like words. My brain doesn’t read charts and other types of geometry well- and then you’ve got the right side/wrong side thing. But ‘they’ should publish both words and charts.
I have done very little cabling… because charts scare me… I can read words… I have a strong desire to learn (attempt) a chart… everyone I talk to says they are easy… but I just look at them and think “some day, I will make that beautiful sweater”… and then I go knit more socks! I wish Elsbeth Levold’s book had words to go with her charts! darnitall… some day
Depends on the project. Right now I have the Icarus Shawl pattern which starts out with words when the rows are short, and switches to charts when the rows get longer and very repetitive. I like both, but I use the charts.
I am a very visual person (and a creature of habit) yet I prefer written instructions. I would love if everything had both.
I fear this is like the circular vs. dpn debate. My 2 cents is for words first, then both, then only a chart.
Best wishes and prayers for your friend’s continued journey to health.
Charts please. I am working from a non-charted pattern and it’s driving me nuts.
I can work from either, though I prefer charts. I know that sometimes lack of charts is a space issue, especially in magazines, though that doesn’t seem to be as much of a problem anymore as it was when I first started buying them.
Charts, charts, and charts.
I am a visual kind of person – although i loooove to read – not with knitting.. Easier to know where i am etc..
As for patterns – in this day and age they should have both and if it takes too much printing space – they should put it on the web to retrieve… Secondly, i have a feeling there would be less mistakes in pattern in general – once you chart it – you know right away… right ??!!
Hear, hear! Words and charts together! I don’t see why all styles knitters can’t be accommodated. Hope you feel better soon. 🙂
I am SO AFRAID to learn to knit from a chart. I don’t know why – what you say about seeing it and seeing your knitting and being able to tell if you’ve done something wrong makes total sense to me. Someone earlier said something about visual vs. verbal learning, and usually I’m a mixture of both. I would probably enjoy knitting from a chart, but I just haven’t given it a try yet. In fact, I’ve refused to knit anything with a chart up until now! Maybe it’s time to quit being so stubborn?
I’m with you — there should be both. I used to be a die-hard word person, and I hated and avoided any pattern with only charts. Then I tried a charted pattern (one of those “if you want it bad enough, you can knit it” cases), and now I’m a chart person. It seems that if there were both, then everyone would be happy; it’s also easier for someone who wants to try a new way to compare it to the old way they’re comfortable with, no? Anything to encourage branching out and trying new things (like the toe-up socks I’m working on now, eek!).
Hang in there and feel better soon!
You are so right! We should definitely have both. It’s really strange to me that there are publications that sometimes have a chart and then other times they won’t.
I think the lack of charts is probably actually a conspiracy to piss you off. The likeliest scenario.
I don’t really have a preference… I’m a left-handed mirror knitter and I have to do everything backwards anyway, so it’s all confusing.
I always make a chart! Or I copy the chart, if they give one. I like to be able to carry it with my project.
My prayers go out to your friend…
Count me in with the word folk. Charts cause me to curl up in a little ball and whimper. Patterns written BOTH ways seem most reasonable to me. Is there a web site that translates charts into words??? For complex patterns, I use the good old one-line-to-an-index-card method.
And to your friend, I send continuing hugs (gentle ones) and prayers for her recovery.
For you, young lady, I recommend REST and lots of water (drowns the germs) and some major pampering by your loving family. End of sermon, uh, tirade!
I totally love charts more than words. I wish everyone would publish schematics like Japanese patterns.
I used to use tons of sticky notes to keep track of rows on charts but I just (like a week ago) found a tip to use a highlighter to mark off the whole row just completed. This has two benefits: no sticky notes to accidently fall off and lose your place and you can see through the previously highlighted row to “read” your knitting better. The only downside that I’ve encountered is you must make multiple photocopies of the chart if there are many repeats.
I don’t do cables, so I have no opinion on the matter tho I tend to be “visual” so I can see the advantage. But on the whole, I think you just need more drugs. Or a hot toddy made with whiskey, lemon and honey.
I feel like I’m reading a Knitter’s Review thread… so very interesting. I agree with Jocelyn. I went from being a die-hard word to die-hard chart knitter in less than a year. I also agree with Pattie. I always make a chart if one isn’t given. It is so much faster. My wish, though, is that charting had a universal language – all yarn overs using the same symbol, for example. When knitters rule the world I’m sure this will happen!
I absolutely think we need both — AND a schematic! I prefer the words, but am learning to read the charts. More information is ALWAYS better!
I recently converted a friend from written instruction to charts. I love charts. I used to be able to do either. Now I have a hard time with word instruction. I would even pay a little more for the pattern if designers would also include charts. Feel better soon dear Harlot and continued good thoughts for your friend.
As a knitter, I like both words and charts. I make the most use of the charts, but like to retreat to the words if any of the symbols seem particularly unusual and/or completely unrelated to the knitted effect they produce. As a designer with just a few published patterns under my belt and no fancy layout programs, I find charts daunting to prepare, even though I usually write them up as I’m working on a design. (I have to chart any kind of a complex decrease to work it out satisfactorily.) I would expect, however, that that shouldn’t be an issue for a company like Rowan.
I ao very happy to hear that your friend came through things well. My continued thoughts and prayers remain with her. As for you head cold…at times of stress, our bodies will respond with cold like symptoms, it is called “acute phase response” and basically means that our bodies are reacting to stress by over stimulating the immune system, and increasing the inflammatory process to help cope with the stress. You need to “de-flame” as one of my professors has said in the past. Here is a recipe for a ginger green tea that will surely help you feel better…let me know how it works!
Need: 1 Gallon of purified water, 1/2 pound of sliced fresh, organic ginger, 2-3 gallon stainless steel pot
Boil the water, add the ginger, boil for 5 minutes, turn off heat and keep off. Add 2-6 organic green tea bags, steep for 30-60 minutes then take out. Leave ginger in the water for 4-12 hours, then strain the tea. Chill and drink cold, or reheat for a hot cup of tea. The variations on the amounts and times are simply how strong you prefer your flavors, and strength of tea. Enjoy!!
Glad to hear that the surgery went well. As for patterns, it would be nice if pattern writers would include both written directions as well as charts. I think charts are easier to follow, especially if you should need to reverse the pattern. (A long story, but I did have to do it once, and it was definitely easier to read the pattern from left to right than, reverse the order of the written pattern.)
Words AND Charts! They complement each other. If I don’t get one, I get the other…..most of the time ;o )
So glad your friend’s surgery went well. Am keeping her in prayer…
I prefer that authors include both- words and patterns. As I get stronger in skills, I am now able to better follow charts, but sometimes it seems that writing out a repeat is just quicker than a lot of geometric designs. Also, I would strongly urge any author to show a good, close-up photo of the cable/lace repeat in the pattern. It is so frustrating when you are trying to match your WIP mess to the patterns, but to see the only picture of the cable is taken from about five feet away on the FO doesn’t really work for me. (Interweave Knits, you hear me?)
I’m really glad your friend is doing ok. I’m sure it was your shawl and the eagles helping keep her strong.
Words apparently terrify me. The Christmas after my mother died, I received a half-knit aran sweater she hadn’t been able to finish. I put it in a closet for a few months, occasionally glancing at the 57 1/2 pages (more-or-less) of instructions. Finally, one day I looked at the sweater, realized the cables were just travelling stitches, charted them out, and finished the sweater without ever looking at those scary pages and pages of instructions.
Once I really get going on charts I can use them fine. But it takes a while. I have issues with complicated things like “left” and “right.” Which is hard in knitting cables from charts because you then need to know how to translate left and right (or rather, slanty lines one way and slantly lines another way) into holding to the front or back. And then there’s the whole problem of the stitches being represented out of order…oh my. Clearly, I have issues. Thus, CF6 shaves about 20 seconds off of each cable stitch for me.
Charts. Take less space on a page than words do. Give a visual representation of what the finished fabric will look like. Charts are also faster to draw than instructions are to write.
I’m primarily a word knitter but I like it when they have both because I am trying to make the transition to charts and having both helps me make the concepttual leap. That said, if I had to choose, I’d go with the words every time.
Joy
Rewalsar, H.P., India
I like having both a chart and the written directions. When I’m working lace or cables, I use the chart about 90% of the time. For me, the chart shows the relationship between the row I’m working on and the rows that came before in a way that writen directions don’t convey.
Being a visual person, I much prefer charts, but I have a friend who is a diehard word person. So, I vote for both!
CHARTS! Words are also helpful but not always necessary. Rowan has a strong aversion for charts. The only time they ever print one is for color work.
Well, patterns are written by knitters, and knitters obviously have a preferred way to think. I think the choice to go with one or the other must have as much to do with personal choice as it does with publication/cost issues.
Does somebody know a good computer program for creating cable charts? I’m thinking that creating charts for cables requires some graphics skills – but you can do the colorwork charts in just about any program.
Words, charts, hieroglyphics–I don’t care. As long as it’s knitting, I’m okay. Now computers, that’s another story.
PoTAYto, PoTAHto. You know, your friend Lee Ann just did a post lamenting the lack of words in Victorian Lace Today.
Myself, I am a chart-knitter for lace and a word-knitter for cables (so far). Always the contradiction. But I think it’s only fair they provide everyone with both all the time. (it’s also helpful to have a back up if something doesn’t make sense in your preferred method)
Both, please! If push came to shove, I prefer words. In fact if given a chart, I translate it into my own short hand on large index cards.
I like charts, and have never used words. I just don’t choose patterns that have them. They may be easier than I think, but I wouldn’t know.
Whenever I decide to knit a pattern with only written instructions now, I chart it. Recently I started a Karabella “Sunsports” shawl, and was making little progress, even with my chart. Then I found a proper “Sunspots” chart in RUNWAY KNITS. Now I’m knitting along like gangbusters!
Wishing speedy recoveries for both you and your friend.
Charts do it for me! When I read directions, I sit there mumbling them out loud to myself, sounding rather deranged. I was a graphic artist for many years-say no more.
Mary E
I agree with printing both. There are times when I can read it and visualize, but other times I need a chart. It’s kind of like how I do math. Once I see it in chart/picture form I can understand the words.
Glad to hear your friend is better.
I like both charts and words. If I don’t understand a chart, I can go to the words and see what I’m missing, the go back to the chart to do the work. Charts are like a shorthand for the words.
oooooh! nice charting! ok…call this a shameless plug or whatever but I’m re-doing my book of fussy aran patterns using Knit Visualizer. As someone from a former software trainer/helpdesk life, I’m fascinated by the fact I can write either a chart or instructions and the thing will turn it into the other…thing. I like to chart, so then it writes the instructions for me – HUZZAH! Of course, then it saves it all in a neat file I can drop into anything I like. Oh, she (KnitFoundry.com) sells tape that keeps my place on said charts (or the ones I purchase from others) easily…I was reading some of the comments, heh.
I didn’t see yesterday’s post (which totally made me cry just now at work) until just now. I am very very glad your friend came through surgery ok.
For cables… I love me some charts! Otherwise I have to look up every single abbreviation every single time I encounter it.
For lace… I need the words. Otherwise I have to look up the symbols every single time!
I have no idea why I’m one way for one kind of knitting and the opposite for another. I am weird.
I, too, just read the post about your friend. I’m so glad she got through the surgery okay and I’m sure that your love, friendship and lovely knitting are playing no small part in that. The shawl is absolutely beautiful and conveys your love and care for her so well.
As for charts vs. words…give me a chart to follow any day. A chart is like a compass or the stars for me and my knitting. If there isn’t one (and there never is with Rowan patterns) I make my own.
Knit on with your chart, Dudette.
I’m glad to hear that your friend is doing as well as can be expected, but I’m sorry to hear that your cold/flu is making a comeback. I hope you feel better soon.
I am totally with you on the words and charts thing. Having recently had an experience where the words had a typo, I was very thankful that there was a chart which was correct. It saved me quite a lot of grief.
Now that I understand charts I MUCH prefer them. But I will admit, for years I felt inadequate as a knitter because I couldn’t understand the charts. Then I tried my first large lace project: I struggled through the words, lost my place a million times and finally gave up and flipped the pattern over to the chart and started again.
All became clear as forced myself through the chart.
Now I won’t do cables or lace that doesn’t have a chart. And I do agree, publishers should put both on the pattern.
Hmm I don’t suppose sleeping under damp wool helped your chest any. 🙂
So glad to hear that you friend has come through the op OK. Now just the long haul but with friends like you I am sure she has all the love and support she needs. But just incase there are warm thoughts and prayers coming from down under her way.
I soooo agree re charts. You think cables are bad enough try reading some of the lace patterns out there. Especially the older ones as in Sarah Don, Weldons etc. I always draw mine up and always design using graph paper, in fact maths paper is better – bigger squares.
Hope you are feeling better soon. 🙂 Hugs your way as well.
Cheers >^..^<
Depends on what your learning style is. If you’re primarily a visual learner, you might prefer charts. But if you (like me) need to have a verbal explanation, then reading directions will work. Charts are singing songs of love, but not for me.
I am so glad she pulled through ok!!!!
As for charts, what I would give to be able to understand them! I dont know if it has something to do with the fact that I suck at math, but charts confuse the hell out of me!
Still, I think designers should use both.
Hope you feel better soon!
I’m a visual person (and midly dislexic) so I prefer charts. But I also like big charts, and almost none are big, so I end up redoing many of them in Excel. This also allows me to color the lines so it is easier to see where I am.
I always want both. While I mostly use the charts while actually working the piece (knit or crochet), I like the words to fall back to if something doesn’t look right or doesn’t make sense.
On a large lace or cable piece, I make a copy of the chart(s) (sometimes enlarged) and highlight through each row as it is completed – I don’t like dragging row marking devices around with me.
So glad to hear your friend got through surgery safely, Stephanie. Will continue to send good thoughts for her recovery and future progress – and yours, too! Stoopid colds…
And lordy, how I *wish* patterns would come with both charts and words as a matter of course. Me, I’m a word person. I can read color charts ok, if they’re not too complicated, but I cannot ‘see’ things from any other kind of chart. All I see is a mess. Whether it’s an entire sweater, or a stitch pattern… If it’s charted only, that pattern is instantly off the radar. It’s never going to be purchased or made by me. I can’t translate ’em, either, so once I see a chart, pththtttt – I’m outta there.
Lest anyone think I’m just being stubborn, no. I tried to learn. I sweated through umpteen articles extolling and explaining charts in excruciating detail. I did this for weeks at a time, over a period of about two years, with every resource I could lay hands on. Finally I said screw it. It was like the section in the SAT tests where they showed flat diagrams with folding lines and you had to choose what the correct 3D version was. I failed miserably on that part. My brain does not *work* that way, and life’s too short. Give me sweet, understandable words. (If I wanted to learn an entire new language, what with all those symbols they airily say are so easy to figure out – hah – I’d prefer Russian or Japanese. Languages, I’m good at.)
I’m happy for the people with chart brains out there, that they finally have patterns that make more sense to them after all those years of no charts at all… But does it have to be one way or the other? Hang the expense; let’s hear it for equal time for right and left-brainers! Give us both, dammit. Until then, well – I haven’t bought many knitting mags since the chart revolution took place, and I check knitting book reviews and patterns very carefully. Because I’m not spending any money on something that’s useless for me.
I have a very strong preference for charts. Very. Strong.
But I know some people have problems with reversing direction on charts. Me, I figure it helps keep my brain flexible.
Didn’t read all the other comments for once, so I don’t know what the general consensus is. However, lack of charting might just be enough to break my fascination with Juno.
When that happens, I simply print out some graph paper (made in Excel, and saved for future reference) and make my own chart based on the written instructions. For me, it is so worth it to take the time to chart it out myself.
I *can* read a chart, but I find it much easier to memorize written instructions. I spend way too much time looking at the chart, then looking at the key trying to figure out what the heck it is they want me to do when I see 2 diagonal lines leaning to the right or whatever. And the bad part about it is that I have to do that every stinkin’ time I see that symbol, because it just doesn’t click.
Of course, once the pattern’s established I just read my knitting.
I’m so glad to hear that your friend came through her surgery well. I dearly hope that she continues to do so well.
As for words vs. charts, I think all patterns should have both. At this point I personally prefer written instructions (I seem to memorize words more easily than movements), but it’s also very nice to have an idea of how the stitches should relate to each other, and what the knitting should look like. I can aspire to the day when I’ll be comfortable with only charts–after all, I’m a pianist, and music is a type of chart–but for now, charts are a bonus, but please give me written instructions.
Feel better soon! (Red raspberry leaf tea with plenty of spearmint breaks up the congestion like a dream, without the fuzzy side effects.)
I hate charts for both lace and cables (colorwork is not a problem). For some reason, I cannot remember what all the little symbols mean on the dang things and it takes me forever. I can commit the written words to memory no problem and will whiz through them in no time flat. This is why my first lace pattern was from Fiber Trends…it was the only one I could find that had the instructions written out (and charted)!
I am a pattern reader..Cant get my head around charts (probably could if I sat down without children annoying me and all)…
I dont understand why patterns dont come in both. It would be easier for everyone to have the pattern written and a chart.
Katt
If I had to choose one then it would be charts, but I can and will use either. I concur that it is a different learning method issue and I just happen to be more flexible than some. Everyones brain is different.
Hope your friend is doing well!
The Feather Shawl is absolutely beautiful. I think it’s the most beautiful knit I’ve ever seen. Congratulations on finishing. One day I will make a shawl. Nothing like that. But I can try, huh?
Sorry to hear about your cold and lack of charts. Feel better!
I agree! Give both charts and words. For me, it seems to depend on the individual pattern whether charts or words work best for me. I lose my place in the charts more than I do with words. Although when the charts are big, I do better with them. (I know, I could xerox the small ones to make them bigger, but I don’t.)
Generally, I like to work off the words, but use the charts to find mistakes and check how I’m doing. Also, I have an illness that affects brain function, so that might be part of it.
And, while they are printing both charts and words check the damn instructions for mistakes!!!
-charli
p.s. I’m so glad your friend came through the surgery well.
As a left-to-right knitter who refuses to bow down to the majority and knit the “right” way, I find written instructions very, very difficult. They are written for the vast majority of right-handed knitters knitting in the standard, ordinary way, which is completely the opposite of how I knit. While there are often times when I simply CAN NOT knit what is being asked of me (for example, any time short rows are presented in pattern), I find charts vastly easier to decode. It’s much easier for me to replace C2F with C2B in the chart key and get the same result as a righty knitter, than it is to go through and correct it every time in written instructions, or worse, to just hope I remember to flip it every time I come across any given instruction.
So yes, I agree, written instructions are total crazy-making.
Here’s a wish for all of us (muggles and knitters and friends and all) for Mothers’ Day:
http://www.standingwomen.org/index.html
I started knitting with words only. Then I had a neighbor from Japan who taught me crochet from photos – then I went to charts. Finally knitting patterns started with charts. I love them, especially for Fair Isle and cables. The rest of the stuff – words will be fine. I find there are fewer errors in the charts vs the written version.
As an elementary ed teacher candidate, one of the big pushes is towards differentiation of material. The multitude of learning styles and special needs demands that nearly every assignment have numerous facets and means of access. Unfortunately, the rest of the world doesn’t seem to be catching up on this. It is foolish to choose one method over another if your goal is to sell patterns to a multitude of knitters.
My own personal pet peeve? Give me a gauge in stockinette stitch! Gauges specified in lacy stitches are completely worthless!
This isn’t the first time a head cold has thrown you for a loop. Why don’t you pull out a simpler UFO and zone out?
(Yeah. I know why. People expect a certain amount of knitterly angst from you on a daily basis, and you don’t want to disappoint them, right?)
I’m a chart girl myself, but can read a pattern if I have to. Hope you are feeling better soon.
I am a cable by charts girl too. I always end up charting them myself. On the subject of things that bug us about patterns, patterns assume you have the correct gauge, so why not tell you to work so many rows instead of so many inches?
I am an elementary teacher and I know exactly what Leyna posted about differentiation in learning. I personally use both words and charts. I can “see” with the chart but sometimes the words help me too. Options are a good thing. As far as editing, there are programs out there in the wide world of computers for charts. Maybe they need to hire knitters to do the entering and proofreading. I think it’s a cheap cop-out to say it’s too expensive or confusing.
I have taught my students to knit in the classroom and there are a few who want to move to the next step, with “design” so I have started them with slip-stitching with dark and light colorways. For some, charts are very helpful, for others it’s words. I have taught them to create their design on chart first to see it, then convert it to words. Their pattern contains both. And these are sixth graders (ages 11 and 12).
in the language of teachers, you want to hit on as many modalities as possible to appeal to the widest spectrum of learning styles. therefore… YES! both written instructions (for verbal/linguistic learners) and charts (for visual/spatial learners) should,in all fairness, BOTH be included in all patterns! 🙂
I am glad your friend got through her surgery, Stephanie. Beautiful knitting, lots of love woven though your words and the craft of your hands.
She will be in my prayers–a dear, dear friend of mine has metasticized lung cancer which she is fighing with grace and even a sense of humor. Life is fragile as a thread at times, it seems.
I totally agree. I like to have a visual chart (as an artsy sort of person, I do tend to like the visual) but I also like to have the written instructions. It makes me feel safe like I have a way to double-check my work.I think it matches the chart, yup, it matches the written directions too.
Easier that way.
I guess I’m in the minority here, but charts might as well be written in Sanskrit, as far as I’m concerned. I promised my brother a sweater for Christmas last year, but couldn’t find a good pattern that wasn’t charted, so I hauled out a VERY old Aran knit that went beautifully (in spite of several froggings). If it’s charted, I don’t buy it.
So happy to hear that your friend’s surgery went well, I also have someone in my life (a dear friend’s teenage daughter) who recently went under the knife for cancer and so far the prognosis looks rosy. As far as charts – Rowan never likes to take the easy route. Have you ever noticed how many hat and raglan patterns that company puts out that are knit flat? Stiff upper do-things-the-hard-way.
-Will you have honey or condensed milk on your bread? asked Rabbit.
-Both, but never mind the bread, said Pooh, not wanting to seem greedy.
I’m one of the greedy knitters who likes both…words to actually knit from (I use a sticky note to keep my place – it works wonders!) and charts to make sure that my project looks how it’s supposed to! I agree with whoever requested the photo that actually shows what the piece should look like…That would be lovely.
I hope that you feel better soon!!! 🙂
SO glad to hear your friend is safely on the back side of her surgery.
YES to words and YES to charts. And YES to a schematic with measurements. Good patterns should contain all three.
That said, I have not been knitting long. Yet I have the audacity to write patterns and put them in little sheet protectors and peddle them at my local knit shops (I gave you a copy of one at Madrona, I think. “Optical Illusion Hat.”)
I’ve learned with pattern writing that there is a fine line between not enough information and too much. Sometimes providing charts AND words only confuses people. Sometimes as a designer you have to decide which way is the best way to present the information so that the people most likely to use it will absorb it. Most knitters who are not advanced knitters are afraid of charts.
In the aforementioned hat pattern, I would have gladly just included the chart. But my intermediate knitters taking the hat class needed the words. The chart, particularly a slip stitch chart where one row of chart equals two rows of knitting, freaked them out.
Sorry to blather on. That’s at least 10 cents of my two cents.
Cheers!
Have you, by any wild chance, seen anything resembling a doctor? I hear Canada has a dandy health-care system, turnstiles aside.
I always chart everything before I start a project. Much easier to see mistakes and make modifications.
Of course, that means I am much more likely to start a project that comes with charts. Less work to do before the knitting.
Count me as a chart person, especially for cables. Glancing between my knitting and long lines of alphabet soup means I always lose my place, get a roaring headache from peering at the tiny print, and (as you say) don’t figure out I’ve screwed up until way way after the fact.
I totally agree about charts AND words. I only like charts for fair isle or intarsia, and word for cables and lace, but I thingk they should include words and charts for cables and lace.
I also like both charts and words. I use the chart to make sure I understand the words. I agree that they should include both so kitters can choose what works for them.
Early in my knitting career I was a words girl. I think that’s because I pretty much only had access to Patons products and they are pretty die hard fans of words. I resisted the charts for a while but once I started with them I swore I’d never turn back. Charts are usually smaller than all those lines of text and hence I tend to think they’d be less expensive but I don’t really know.
I learned by reading words, and I have only begun to make sense of a chart. I guess it depends on the journey you have taken and the path you took.
I just posted about that…and I am also taken under by a big cold and can’t even get the words right, much less the charts. Sivia Harding, darling that she is, does both for her patterns, and I appreciate it, because I’m finally knitting a coveted stole of hers. But thanks to brain weirdness, I can now only follow the written out instructions. Yes, I see the chart. Yes, I know that my knitting is supposed to look like the picture. But ask me to remember that a slash this way is an SSK or a slash that way is a K2TOG and I’m screwed. I used to be solely a chart person. Now I’m chained to the words and I actually have to mouth them as I’m doing it. Very attractive in waiting rooms.
F***ing brain cells.
Hope you feel better. I caved and got an antibiotic.
I *have* to have charts to knit. I’m left-handed and taught myself to knit backwards, thus instructions for me tend to work out a little differently. Without a chart I get lost pretty quickly, and I end up doing just what you did and drawing them out. I’m a fan of putting both so everyone can understand.
Do you know what, I am sure that designers are sympathetic to us knitters and would love to provide both words and charts – but PUBLISHERS are only interested in how much a pattern book costs to manufacture. I bet it’s a question of space. Seriously. If you print a chart *and* words, that’s going to add like 30% to your paper and printing costs. This theory would also explain why printed charts are so often unusably tiny. I think that publishers think that text alone takes up less space. I could be wrong, but hey, that’s my best guess.
I’m big on the charts too. But occasionally, I can’t figure out what they mean in a chart and then it’s nice to have it written out.
BTW, I am so happy your friend’s surgery went well. Having a new shawl to wrap in will certainly help with her healing too.
If you want to create your own chart, you can use: http://sweaterproject.org/visiknit/. I’ve used it for a few projects and it works okay.
I think it’s just what one is used to. I Have never used a chart, just because I didn’t learn with charts(my Mom is a word person, and she taught me to knit, so maybe it’s that). However, since I’ve been reading your blog, I have become interested in learning to use them, & can certainly see the appeal! Just haven’t tackled one yet…
Feel better soon!
I want charts and schematics. Absolutely. It’s like having a pattern test-knit. Does it cost more? Who cares? It’s necessary.
You KNOW that your relapse is from the stress. Is it warm enough to go for a walk? A bike ride? Or better yet, try this:
Draw one hot bath
Pour a huge cup of strong tea with lemon
Add several dollops of good Irish Whiskey (to the tea, silly.)
Soak until the bath cools or you run out of Irish.
Go to bed. Preferably not alone.
Pursue your inclinations.
I can’t drink anymore, so you can have my share. I think the Irish is the magic ingredient. Or maybe the inclinations.
Please tell your friend that the prayers and powerful thought will not abate. That’s part of the message of the Eagle.
Charts have the advantage that they’re language-independent – a French knitter, a Russian knitter, an American knitter, and a Japanese knitter can theoretically all look at the same chart and produce the same product.
That said, I have trouble reading them, and like to have accompanying words.
Oddly, I like words for lace and charts for cables. I think it’s because if there’s a reasonably short repeat in the lace, I can keep the words in my head, but I can’t do that for cables.
I like both: words help me get through the first pattern repeat or two without mixing something up, but the chart is better at keeping me on track once I have the pattern down. I can glance at it and see what’s next, rather than digging my way through a pile of words to find the right spot.
I can do cables either way, words or chart, but I absolutely MUST have a chart for lace. I can take the words and draw it up myself, but I can’t follow the words while knitting.
Which has suddenly struck me as very odd… you’d think I’d need one way or the other for both.
Charts please, with words to back them up when my brain gets ‘fused. Taking off my shoes to count to a higher number doesn’t work in this case.
Blessings on your friend & strength & peace.
Here’s to departure of that nasty congestion and crud from you.
Charts please, with words to back them up when my brain gets ‘fused. Taking off my shoes to count to a higher number doesn’t work in this case.
Blessings on your friend & strength & peace.
Here’s to departure of that nasty congestion and crud from you.
I’m glad to hear your friend made it through surgery okay. I hope she does well over the course of her treatment:)
I’m with you, I’d MUCH rather have charts than words. Maybe it’s because it’s easier to read through the pattern that way. You can just look at the chart and know!
HOORAY for your friend!
and BOTH for the cable instructions!
Altho it just occurred to me that it is probably that I’ve done a gazillion cables and am very comfortable with them, but not so much with the lace.
Hope you feel better, btw, and glad your friend is doing ok. Will hold her in my thoughts until I hear otherwise.
And thanks for the pointer to Veronik. I am SO making that sweater she did on Knitty.
I’m so happy your friend is doing well. I hope she continues the way she’s started.
I saw a helpful idea on Knitty Gritty last week. Put your pattern (chart or words) into a clear plastic page protector and use a wipe-off whiteboard marker to cross off each line as you finish it. Or, which they didn’t say but I thought, use a Sharpie indelible marker and throw the page protector away when you’re done. After all, wipe-off markers do exactly that, which could be very inconvenient if it happened at the wrong time. The other thing I thought was that making a copy, rather than dragging the original everywhere, is a good idea, too.
Knitter’s magazine used to do charts and “in other words”. I loved it. The words gave me the “mantra” I could repeat to myself as I knit. The chart was a double check to see whether what I knit was what was there. Also, if there were errors, one would double check the other, without having to go to websites etc. I also could photocopy the chart with as many repeats as necessary, and block them off when I had completed them. It really helped to organize the knitting. However, now my brain is challenged and exercised, which I guess is a good thing too.
Hope your lung issues clear up soon.
I’m with the folks who say that the important thing is to have it all in one place. I hate when you are told to “do A twice and then D and then 3 repeats of C” with A, D and C being scattered on different pages. Doesn’t matter if it’s words or charts then, it’s just plain confusing, especially if the different motifs have different row repeats. I’ve paid good money for a pattern, I shouldn’t have to rewrite it.
Charts for me to see what to do, words to occassionally tell me how, pictures so I can confirm I’m right. But if it’s only words, I’ll usually just skip it.
Thinking pink thoughts.
I am totally with you on the chart thing. I love charts. I adore them. I chart out freaking EVERYTHING. I have a notebook of graph paper filled with charts for projects of all challenge levels. Looking at all those knitting abbreviations make my eyes cross. >.<
I’m so glad your friend’s sugery went well! Here’s hoping for a speedy recovery (for both her and you)!
I gotta say. . . I haven’t ever even done a cable. . . .lace charts however are the devil. (The knitpicks folks though have a cool magnetic gadget that helps you keep your place–I don’t have one but it looks like it would be quite helpful) I like the words directions but I do think that since some of us are more visual learners and others more cryto–something or another they should do both. Think of how blissfully happy all knitters would then be!! (Now if we could only get the designers—aside from a scant few—to make cool patterns for round women)
charts… since I didn’t learn to knit in the english, I still find all the words too much for my brain to handle. I also agree with some of the other readers, that a chart/drawing helps you to figure things out. Especially if there is a written error, it’s easier to figure that out when there is a chart. Also, wouldn’t there be less margin for error if all knitting was charted?
Plain pictures of the knitted object,skip the artsy poses. Schematics of the finished object and WORDS AND CHARTS. Too much to ask for in something that we are willing to pay for? I would be willing to pay more for a pattern that is properly presented. I have purposely not purchased patterns that are not properly pictured and patterned because they are a pain in the patoot. I am just about “P”eed out here.
Charts most of the time. There are a few stitch patterns which aren’t worth charting because they are simpler written out. Usually when doing something nonstandard which can’t be represented across one square. Although even that can be useful charted if it’s going to be an infrequent occurrence amidst a bunch of other stuff.
As a pattern writer, though, it can be a lot easier to write up a pattern in text only. I’ve got 4 patterns stalled in the half written up stage because generating cable and lace charts the way I do takes so long. If I had dedicated software for it, I’m sure it would be faster, but I’ve no doubt it would still a drag.
I will likely be in the minority: give me words any time. My brain just doesn’t process charted symbols – it all turns to swimming spaghetti in my head. It doesn’t look like any knitting to me – it looks like the mouse got into my dyes and went walking all over my pattern sheet. And yes, the mighty have tried to teach me. There’s a chip missing. Trust me.
Here’s holding fond hope for your friend…and for your heart, too.
Both are quite essential for me, but charts are what I usually favour. I even have struggled for a month to come up with a chart that works for charting the turning of a sock heel with non-square charting paper. It’s available as a PDF in my sock tutorial.
I’m the kind of person who wants both charts and words. The combination of the two is what helps me to understand the pattern best.
And now for you, dear Harlot, perhaps you should take yourself to the doctor for a second opinion (not yours). Your plague has been going on entirely too long!
I have plenty of charted scarf, wrap, shawl, sweater, etc patterns waiting on my to-do list that I cannot get my brain wrapped around yet. I have been knitting about two years and have to transpose the chart to words to have any success.
I vote for designers et al to provide both forms of instruction!
I personally prefer charts, but I think that people who prefer words should definitely have that option. However, I have one problem with charts–the symbols aren’t standardized. I am trying to design an Aran sweater using cables from different sources–Barbara Walker, the Harmony guides, Vogue etc.–and they all use a different system of symbols. I had to translate everything on my Stich and Motif maker software to draft a master chart. While this was a very instructive exercise, it took me forever, so long that my initial enthusiasm for the project has waned! I also agree with the woman who said that they should show schematics for the pieces of a garment. No more gorilla arms–it should never get to that point! I apologize if either of these points has previously been mentionned–I stopped reading after about 120 posts.
I knit more lace designs than cables, but I haven’t had problems adjusting to charts. In the past, I’ve done some large counted cross stitch projects, so it might have helped.
I used to be afraid of charts, but now I adore them. So much more portable than lists and lists of words! I’m knitting Annie Modesitt’s Backyard Leaves right now. I can hardly imagine the pattern written out. It would take 10 pages!
As a spec ed teacher, I would say give us both.
I was chuckling to myself as I read. You obviously seem to be a primarily visual learner… as you want to “see” the chart, and when non-cold clouded, even need to “see” the pattern of the words.
I’m wondering if the ‘word’ crowd wants to hear the instructions more (auditory learners) or maybe even feel the chart (kinaesthetic)? Is this the knitter that chants out the repeats in a pattern? It would be an interesting study to which types predominate among knitters.
Looking at the previous comments, the knitters seem to fit pretty well in the usual groups of
~75% visual, ~20% auditory and ~5% kinaesthetic — based on a truly rough analysis of preferences and comments about how they do it.
Glad to hear the surgery went well.
Socks are good to knit during a cold… or anytime.
The Mystery Revealed
The Harlot’s mind is perceiving
As Her hands are swift.
The Passion of her Heart
Is the proportional Joy of knitters.
I will not guess anymore what the harlot does as I do not knit with my hands. While not impossible, all things are passing and we go where we will. I hope for your friend that regardless of length, time will pass well.
It is almost mother’s day down here in the states. I still think of my mother who traveled away just three years ago. I no longer buy her a mother’s day card and not one could say what I would besides.
Here are two mother’s day snippets I have for all mothers of the stitch. May your knitting days be called happy.
Dear Mother,
You were the first song in my ears,
And the first bread on my lips.
Your eyes the first vision of my sight,
And your hand the first to enter my grasp.
Your Love entered my heart first,
My thoughts for you will be the last to depart
On the winds of my mind.
Dear Mother
In your Garden
My first roots touched the soil of Earth.
In your Fountain
I drank the first Waters of Life
In your Heart
My first blossoms of Love bloomed.
In your Forest
Grew the timbers of my Strength.
Charts all the way! If I have a pattern without charts that needs them, I chart it myself. I have skipped over patterns (at least for now) that I liked because they did not have the necessary charts.
I love charts for the same reason..a quick check to see that I am on course! Having written words as well would be a good thing, but charts speak all languages and little need for translation!
Am very grateful your friend has made it though this part of her healing…prayers are still going out to and for her and her loved ones. That big pink will be an enormous help!
Definitely both. I like to read the instructions and then I can figure out the chart 😉
Steph, Chicken soup, hot tea, zinc tabs,Vit C, sit in the sunshine, and maybe start taking a multivit so that when you are traveling so much so you don’t get so run down??
Sorry the way you sounded, the Mom in me just had to come out!!
Glad to hear your friend came thru yesterday okay, and hope all progresses nicely for her.
Feel better soon!!!
Sorry, Stephanie, I prefer words. I use charts for intarsia, but just can’t figure them out for cables or other textured knitting. Maybe some day.
Good to hear that the surgery went well. Maybe the stress of waiting and knitting the big pink thing lowered your immune system, and that is why you are ill again.
Take care.
Katherine
I would like to see both, they compliment each other.
First: Stephanie, all my hopes and prayers are with your friend as she heals. She’s lucky to have a “wing-knitter” like you in her life.
Next: As past managing editor of Interweave Knits, and current editor of Interweave’s new website, KnittingDaily.com, perhaps I can shed some light on the charts versus words issue, at least from my perspective at Interweave Press. 🙂
At Interweave, we’re knitters first. We care deeply about the patterns, how they are printed, and whether the instructions are correct and presented clearly. We do care what you, our readers, want and need. I was a subscriber to IK before I came to work at Interweave. Knitting is truly part of my heart and spirit–as it is for all of us who work on IWP’s knitting pubs.
The decision whether to print a chart or words (or both) is complicated, and is often done on a case-by-case basis. It involves time, money, available page space, copyright issues (in the case of the web), and a precious resource that we never have enough of: our wonder-working and amazingly talented tech editors.
Even if every designer submitted a chart (not all do, not all can–for various reasons), the charts would be in a dozen different formats: hand-drawn, Excel, special software, Illustrator. Because of this, we pay a tech editor to (re-)create the charts in the software we use here so that all the charts use the same symbols and “read” the same. The charts then have to be imported/converted into the layout software we use. Each chart is then checked carefully by several people on our editorial team. (We’re human, and the number of patterns we review each month is high–so we make mistakes. We try to correct those mistakes as fast as we can.)
This takes quite a bit of time per pattern, and the publishing schedule for our magazines and books is pretty tight.
If we already have a chart, then many times we make the (tough) decision not to write the directions out in words. The additional time it takes a tech editor to “translate” all the instructions–for all the sizes–into words is prohibitive, given the very quick turnaround required.
And yes, it takes so much space to print the long “wordy” instructions–in addition to the chart–that often space is the final deciding factor. Paper is expensive; postage is expensive. In order to provide both versions in print, we would have to raise the price of the magazines (and books) to a level that might make the patterns inaccessible to many knitters.
That would be a Bad Thing. (More patterns=Good Thing.)
As for putting the charts (or the words) on the Internet, there are copyright and contractual issues involved that sometimes get in the way. And again, we are back to the tech editing time required to provide the instructions in both formats. There are a limited number of tech editors capable of producing charts (or word translations of charts) quickly, accurately, and in the correct software; we keep them very busy as it is!
All that said: We care. We’re knitters, too. If there is a particular pattern that is giving you trouble in a particular format, please write to us and let us know. If our stitch keys aren’t clear, or if you would like more “how-tos” written about how to translate a chart, please let us know. If you think a set of row-by-row instructions would be clearer as a chart, let us know. We want to hear from you. After all: The magazines and books are for YOU.
All these issues are as close to our hearts as they are to yours. Given that Knitting Daily is my new baby-to-be, I personally am hoping that KD will be able to give everyone all kinds of good knitting stuff as we grow.
This was long, but I hope it helped. I’ll let my colleagues at IWP know that there are lots of great comments to read here.
Thanks to everyone for caring enough to write about this. Please be patient with us publishers as we work with the realities of publishing in order to make all our knitting dreams come true 🙂
Pictograms 🙂 Words X-(
First, relief and happiness that your friend came through surgery all right. And now she gets to heal, while wrapped in your healing shawl and everyone’s thoughts.
As for charts? I am dyslexic. Need I say more? Please, please, PLEASE show me a picture.
I design a few things, and even though writing and proofreading written instructions causes me grievous headaches, I do so nonetheless, so that people who use my patterns can choose between charts and the written word.
We knitters are very powerful with the mojo. Anyone who doesn’t believe is just a lowly muggle.
Both words and charts are always the best. You can see it when you want to. But at those times when you have a lapse, it’s helpful to be able to read what you need to do. I believe they don’t put both for expense and room issues. Sad really. Everyone knows knitters love their books. A knitting book is bound to make money.
Again feh to the muggles.
One day they will believe.
🙂
I prefer words myself, but I think patterns should always have both.
Blessings on your friend, and healing to her. In the words of Julian of Norwich, “all shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.”
It’s late at night so I don’t have time to read the other comments about charts vs. words (will do when I can), but I have to chime in. I could not do cable knitting without charts. This surprises me, because I have been a word-person, very text oriented, since childhood. However, I have knitted cabled sweaters and am currently knitting the Great American Aran Afghan, and someone would have carted me off to the funny farm by now if I didn’t have charts.
What I usually end up doing is to photocopy the various little charts and tape them up on a piece of paper in the order they are to be knit. If there’s something fiendish, such as starting the first repeat of chart A on row 1 and the second repeat on row 17, I cut up the second repeat and tape it together so that row 17 of the second repeat is at the same eye level as row 1 of the first.
Then I color code my stitch markers and write the colors next to the chart segments. When I glance at my page of charts, I can quickly see which chart comes after each color of marker. Finally, I use sticky notes to keep track of what row I’m on. This is essential when working multiple charts on the same piece of knitting; some may have 4-row repeats and others 35, and I just can’t keep it all in my head.
I do think that patterns should provide both words and charts, whether cables, lace, Fair Isle, or textured stitches, because some knitters can only use one or the other. For myself, I just don’t purchase or knit patterns that have only words.
Charts for me! I’m very visual and do best if I can “see” it. That said, I’m also a counter, and a short pattern repeat is great in words…just prepare to hear me muttering along with the stitches. It only seems fair that patterns should be unprejudiced. We don’t all knit the same way, nor do we learn the same way. There should be both words and charts. It’s definitely not too much to ask. And all recipes should come with color photographs so that I know if the dish has come out wonky or if it’s supposed to look like a hairball.
Charts!! I knit something because it looks good, not because it reads well!
I have no clue how to read pattern charts. Give me words anyday.
I get very frustrated when I see a beautiful pattern I would love to knit and have no clue how to because it’s charted. I’ve poured over them and tried to figure them out but I’m still clueless and frustrated in the end.
I am brain injured – like Alison Hyde, second commenter of this day. All brain injuries are different, but mine is like hers in this one respect – charts don’t do it.
In fact, I am tempted to convert a chart to written out form, all the while cursing the author for not bothering to do so.
Happy knitting,
Janey
janeyknitting AT yahoo DOT ca
I didn’t read about your friend and the explanation of the Big Pink Thing until today. I’ll keep her in my thoughts and prayers that she’ll have healing and peace. Hearing “we’ve found something” changes everything and maybe the hardest part is letting go of the plans you had for life before the something was found. Bless you for working so hard to send her tangible evidence of your love. I hope you feel better soon!
And yes, I vote for charts to be included in patterns. I like to see the visual representation and seeing a line-up of yok2yok2togsskk5 (or whatever) just results in a mess o’ mistakes for me. I do, however, like making up a chant for the pattern to mutter while I knit. A mantra, that’s what it is!
I used to be ascared of charts, but now I do prefer them. My problem lies in the fact that I have trouble interpreting written word to chart form when I need to.
And that’s when it’s time to look for a new project.
When I first started knitting (3 years ago) I didn’t understand charts… not the least bit. I was totally dependent on words…
I’ve gotten better at charts, especially since I’ve started knitting cables and such, and now, I’ve found myself drawing charts for my own patterns.
So I think I’ve come full circle, though I still like words.
I agree! We need charts and words to help us out! I really don’t like reading charts and my hands aren’t really steady enough to cross it out line by line. But still… people aren’t going to do both because it’s more expensive. Print AND a chart for ONE pattern?! That’s a lot of paper and ink! This cuts down on their costs. Yay for cheap companies!
Feel better soon! Remember, illness comes from not spending enough time taking care of yourself. Take care, m’dear. Rest up, your children are old enough to fend for themselves to an extent and if your husband has a moose-hunting story, he can care for himself too.
I’m so glad to hear about your friend. She’s still on my list and will be until you tell us that she’s finished with treatment and ok. I’m so glad that I’m not the only one who loves charts for complicated knitting. (Well what I consider complicated and you consider complicated are two entirely different things LOL!) Like a previous post I had a brain injury several years ago and all those long complicated word instructions give me a literal headache! For a while I couldn’t read which really sucked. I got the skill back, but it still gives me a hard time sometimes, which is why I love charts. I like the general written instructions, but for stitch by stitch instructions I’m a chart girl all the way! Give me a chart so I can look at the it and then at my knitting to know where I am and I’m a happy girl! Thanks Steph for bringing this up. Please use your considerable mojo to let the world know… We want more charts!
Hello Stephanie,
I totally agree with you and in Belgium and France we usually have both text and charts. Having both is a good combination I think, I’m fighting at the moment with the lace part in Rowan no. 39 for ‘Carolina’, and how I would appreciate a chart !!
All the best for your friend…and take good care of yourself.
I’m so glad your friend came through surgery well. One day at a time is often the only way to get through. And what better thing to do than to knit.
I sympathise with you with the head cold thing. I have been battling one too,and had both my boys home from school today after they got it too.
Re: charts vs. word instructions. I prefer words. I suspect it is partly that I started off with word patterns, and partly because I am a word vs picture learner.
Has anyone ever tried working Fairisle off words?
Think about it. A chart is the standard and has been for a long time. What is different about aran or cable knitting?
Probably the fact that we scare ourselves that it might be more difficult. That and there is not standardization on the symbols which can make it incredibly confusing to move between designers.
For what it is worth – I notice fewer mistakes in the charts than in the written words. I have no problems if designers provide both, but I no longer buy patterns or books that do not include both diagrams of the item with measurements (for other than accessories) and charts for all texture or fairisle patterning.
(ok, so I can be grumpy about this)
-Holly
It’s a British thing – traditionally British magazines with knitting patterns always have them written not charted. Years ago I once did a huge Kaffe Fassett jacket from written instructions (yep, colour changes written out so you couldn’t see the row above and where you needed to take the colours next). It’s changing slowly, but British publishers assume British knitters prefer words to charts. Rowan thinks it’s an international magazine but defaults to British mindsets.
I’m a dyed-in-the-wool (no pun intended) written instructions person. I’ve been doing this kind of stuff (actually, the only thing I don’t do is needlepoint – it must have something to do with my ex-husband’s mother being a teacher of it) for 47 years, and the first time I had to use a chart, I seriously considered taking up drinking as a hobby. I can use them (I had to learn how when I was in my counted cross-stitch phase), but give me the words any time. The medication I have to take fogs up my brain to the point where I can’t remember all those little symbols, so I’m constantly having to recheck what they mean. It drives me crazy, not to mention seriously slowing down my knitting or crocheting.
I’m with you on the charts. I can knit easy lace from written instrucions (the kind where you have a 10-stitch repeat that alternates with stockinette every other row) but for anything more complicated I want charts. I’ve never seen written instructions for cables or fair-isle, and don’t see why on earth one wouldn’t chart them. With words, I always lose my place, mess up and am unable to picture what the thing is supposed to look like, so generally I don’t use patterns without charts.
Roro
Oh, charts, all the way. Since I am from Germany and that is what you grow up with there, I had a massive problem starting to knit UK and US patterns just from words. So, like you, I made charts, every time… LOL! And yes, both would be appreciated so that we actually have the enjoyment from the start instead of work making charts!
Hope Juno works like a charm now!
I think all knitting directions should come with both words and charts. I’ve found errors in written directions that didn’t show up in charts, and charts are so universal.
But best of all:
You don’t have to speak/read/think in English to read a chart.
New revolution: include charts!
I just think the publishing people think all designs and patterns have to be written out, word for word for word, and I’m not sure which magazine company to blame it on either.
Both would be good. I hate to knit line-by-line and if the pattern forces me to do so, I seriously consider refusing to knit it. If I MUST have it, then I’ll usually chart ahead of time, fussing the whole way and reminding myself not to fall in love with any more of that designer’s or publisher’s patterns. It’s not you and it’s not the cold – it’s the tedious text.
And Anna, above, has a great point. Charts are a universal language!
I use both written and charts when knitting. I have been knitting lace and find that using notecards with the repeat rows written on them (one row per card) and notebook rings attached to make a small flip chart makes the project portable whereas a chart is not. This does not work on all lace projects but for the lots of patterns this does work. I use charts when doing cable patterns because that was the way I learned. One thing about charts that many people have a problem with (some not knowing what causes the problem) is we are trained to eye track from left to right (reading) and charts are right to left and some brains are not able to be bi-directional without a great deal of retraining. Everybodies brains are different and it has nothing to do with intelligence. Think about the right and left challenged people you know expecially when giving directions.
Would you think about developing a pattern for the shawl. It is beautiful.
Charts! Charts! Charts!
Seems to me- that as charts take up less space in a publication—(besides-I can easily copy a chart and carry it in my knitting bag) it would also be more cost effective.. as opposed to only publishing the words. (longer) Although- I can see how adding both increases cost. (more space for each pattern) So, I say charts!
But then- this is from a woman who cannot follow worded instructions.
Give me charts or give me death! (maybe not)
Words for cables & lace, charts for colour. Perhaps it’s just habit or maybe that the symbols are not universal or that I’ve always been a book learner but I agree they should print both. Is there somewhere in the knitting universe that has an English translation for German [Verena/Burda] short forms and symbols? I’ve tried contacting them and get silence so I just plug away with my German/English dictionary
I can barely read written instructions. I often have to get out my stich glossary for support. Charts….um, uncharted territory for me.
If I am shown how to do something and get time to practice it quietly on my own the I “get it”. Anything with charts so far cause me shortness of breath and a whoosh whooshing in my head.
Both, I want BOTH! Glad to hear that your friend made it through her surgery!
For me, charts are the easiest to make and shorter and cheaper because I plan the knitting in charts. I don’t really want to have to sit down and translate it to words. Yuck.
Best wishes to your friend.
Hope we’ll run into each other soon.
I am such a beginner. Words or charts, I have to translate either one into a spreadsheet. I am working on a sweater with a leaf-pattern band which is charted except the leaf part is in words on another page. Too funny.
The first time I tried illusion knitting I kept getting lost in the chart, even though I had a board, line markers, and magnets to hold the pattern. DH took the chart and wrote out the words line by line (bless him), otherwise I would never have finished. I always use the words if they are presented, so like you, I wonder why both are not given.
Good news about your friend, and well wishes to you.
I definite need a chart. If I can’t make it myself or if there is no chart, I generally skip that particular pattern. On occasion I try to knit without a chart, and I usually “arse” it up.
I’m with you on the charts. If I flip through a book and there are no charts, I don’t bother to buy it. On the occasion that I buy books or patterns online and find out after the fact that there are no charts, it is doubtful that I will make the pattern. I sometimes chart out the patterns, but that takes away from precious knitting time. As a novice knitter, I used words, so having both availiable is preferable.
We will continue to think good thoughts for your friend. I hope she continues to do well.
I learned to knit following only the written out instructions. My mom, who taught me, had never even seen a chart until I brought home a book (written–gasp–in this decade) with charts added in. I taught myself to read it as if written out, but it has taken me a full year to finally “see” what the pattern will look like following charts. Learning that made it MUCH easier to work with charts than long instruction pages!
Sorry, I can’t handle charts. I look at a chart and say to myself “What the heck are they talking about?” Gotta have the words.
Glad to hear your friend made it so well through the hurdle. More healing energy is on the way to her.
CHARTS – only way I can handle cables. I lose track with written instructions.
I’m a word knitter. And, funny – I always seem to find patterns with charts! Ya know what I do? Painstaking though it may seem, I actually convert charts to words on patterns that don’t have the written-out instructions! I honestly always thought that it must be cheaper and easier to print patterns in chart form, because that’s what I always seem to find, even though I’m always looking for patterns written in word form!
Here’s one more hat thrown into the “Charts” corner! I agree that it’s so much easier to actually see what one’s knitting actually should look like, and further they’re so much more portable! Some charting for cables can look a little strange (I find lace charts more straightforward), but I’d encourage any “words” person to try charts again.
I’m glad to hear your friend is doing alright. She has a whole flock of knitters behind her!
So glad your friend made it through surgery ok, and I hope for a good outcome at the end of it all.
I too wish patterns had both charts and the written instructions. Peoples’ brains process information differently,and some of us do better with a chart and some with line by line instructions. I suppose cost leads designers or publishers to choose one way or the other. We’d have to pay more for longer patterns. ‘Tis an imperfect world.
Feel better soon!
I notice people saying things about keeping their place in charts, magnets, cookie boards, etc….Just use those little sticky note flags, the clear ones! Pick a different color for different sorts of things, and move them along as you go…you can block out sections, underline sections, high light sections, whatever! Works for both charts and word directions. I now keep packages in all my knitting bags, and if I lose them, I can get more in any drug store!
Where knitting is concerned, I am a firm believer in belt AND braces.
Give me words AND charts.
I am a slightly advanced beginner and I figure that designers/pattern writers are less likely to make a mistake in both chart AND written instructions.
I am not yet familiar enough with the symbols used in charts to be confident that I am doing the right thing, so I get bothered by just written or just charted instructions.
However, I am just beginning to think that I will probably in the future favour the charted type of patterns – I find them somehow pleasing to the aesthetic eye and quicker to assimilate into the slightly crowded brain.
Yeah! What you said!
My native tongue for knitting are written instructions since that is how I learned. However I am forcing myself more into chart use because, really, it just makes more sense – a picture is worth a thousand words and all that. I prefer both words and a chart (for now) if the publishers would do that.
I try to do both words and charts when I’m designing, which dates back to when I began knitting, and–to make sure I could actually knit what I was contemplating–developed the habit of drawing my selected written pattern on graph paper.
It does help to find errors, and it also helps me to alter what needs altering–wider shoulders, smaller armholes, narrower sleeves, greater body length–with a pencil and eraser, which is much easier than ripping out.
For a large or complex chart, I use one of those metal holders that sits on an easel, with the pattern held by magnetic strips, one of which moves up for the next row of the pattern.
For anything complicated, I also use a great many markers, at least until I have worked well into the pattern and fallen in with its rhythm.
Anyone who has trouble with charts will find them easier to use if the pattern can be converted, at least partially, to in-the-round, so that one is always working in a single direction.
I note that Rowan’s patterns, even for things traditionally worked in the round, such as Fair Isles and ganseys, are written for knitting back and forth. I don’t understand this at all. Knitting back and forth in jacquard is difficult and time consuming, and makes makes no sense to me. I have the notion that this is some kind of snobbery being applied to traditional methods.
What’s that about?
OK, here’s a perfect example. Lace pattern for a scarf, calls for 4 stitches with 4 stitches knit at beginning and end of each row. This leaves 32 stitches. HOWEVER, the “chart” which includes yarn overs and knitting two stitches togather (which are paired, so there is no net loss of stitches) does NOT add up into anything that can divide 32 evenly.
So I have a pattern that I paid $5 and mailing costs for and bought a ball of Zephyr to knit and I might as well throw the whole mess in the fireplace. I’m angry just thinking about the $25 I have WASTED. And I feel as frustrated and stupid as I did in second year algebra.
And that’s what makes me craziest – that a knitting pattern which I know I could do if it was only explained in a way I could understand, could make me experience all of those old feelings of stupidity and uselessness and frustration and anger.
Hey steph. I for one have a hard time reading charts. Right now my method is to cover the line below and the line above with post it notes so i know which line i am doing. i would rather have it written out but i do wish they would give you both so you can see.
Whoops, make that 40 stitches, not 4, for the initial caston
Down here at the bottom of a gazillion comments — I just wanted to add that I like YOUR chart, Steph, better than most of the ones I see in patterns! It’s very intuitive. Some charts are like reading hieroglyphics. That being said, a good chart is worth a thousand words (and probably takes the place of literally that many!). But wordiness can have its place occasionally, so I vote for both (though the chart’s what I’d use) and a photo!
Continued warm rose-colored thoughts for your friend–
Ha! Everyone I knit with thinks I’m whacko for my Excel charts on everything I knit. Lo and behold – here’s where everyone is! Glad to see I’m not the only weirdo out there…
Really, really, really happy to hear about your friend’s first round. With “tests” of my own on the horizon, it must be a ginormously huge relief. Best of luck, hope, thoughts, and wishes to her.
You know–that’s funny–we just had a blog about this the other day…pretty much everyone agreed that they do better with BOTH–words AND charts…some sort of left brain/right brain discussion going on in there that needed it both…I mean, why not? we knit with both hands, we need both sides of our brain?
Thanks for the update on your friend. I’ve had her in my prayers, as well as the surgeons and nurses who attend her.
Sorry to hear about your cold. I’m just getting over it myself. It’s really been going around lately, and it’s a tough one. Here’s prayers for your healing, too.
Funny, just started lacy socks from a new pattern last night….has both the chart and written directions…now if they would print it on something other than teal paper, might be able to read it ! Can’t remember the pattern name, but by fiber trend.
Stephanie…not to be a Jewish mother (can’t – not a mother or Jewish) but you seem to be having a long run of illness the past year…are you stressing yourself out ? Maybe its time for a spa/knitting retreat ? Please take care of yourself !
Kris
Well, charts vs. written seems to be right up there with circular vs. DPNs. When my granny taught me to knit she taught me written instructions,and now that I’m a granny myself, unless it is the MOST basic pattern, I can’t seem to “see” anything in charts, it’s just a bunch of dots and slashes on paper to me. I always lose my place on charts, so, get this, I actually take charts, and write them out in words!! 🙂 PattiO
I have to draw out a chart for lace and cables. Unfortunately my chart drawing is pretty freaking atrocious. Hope you feel better!
I prefer words to charts most days. I agree it would make more sense to give it us both ways, though
I like to start out with words then go to the chart so I definitely want both. I think with all these colds your body is trying to tell you something. Hope you feel better soon.
I am so pleased for your friend as well as you, yay! on the subject of charts vs. words, I vote both…I learned the word method long before I ever saw a chart (other than for colorwork); 48 years later I am only now trying to match words to chart symbols…I repeat I VOTE Both! (I do hope the pattern,book, magazine publishers are reading this!).
Charts, words, audio. Whatever works! The pattern people could at least do the first two.
It’s a learning thing. On the whole, I’d like to have both but I’m a visual person by preference.
Show me a pattern or a chart and I’m fine. Show me just the words without a photo, and I have to knit up a repeat to know what the heck it is.
Sometime I’ll send you the pattern I have from mumble-mumble years ago from Ireland for an Aran sweater – still have the sweater, too although it’s in rough shape and several sizes smaller than I am! Back in the day, you could order Aran wool from Shannon Imports. Anyway, it’s all written out. If I recall it’s like Row 120 knit this, knit that, cable this, cable that…. Row 121, purl.
Then I used patterns written so that it was pattern a, pattern b in words, and then the instructions were “knit 2, do line 6 of pattern a, do line 9 of pattern b.” Oh SO helpful. So, one of the first things I used Lotus 123 (ahem!) for was to put the patterns in the spreadsheet and copy those suckers into line instructions.
Now, one of the few Windows programs I still use is AranPaint. If you chart a cable, it’ll churn out the line by line instructions for you (bless it’s little Australian heart!)
Happy pink shawl thoughts to your friend.
Both, please, but if I HAVE to choose, then charts are easier. I can certainly follow the written word, but it’s easier to lose one’s place in a sentence, and not to mention faster & more efficient to just glance at a chart. Others’ milage may vary, of course, but since you asked….
And I’m continually amazed at the lengths to which you’ll go to skip the ‘tuesdays are for spinning’ thing. 😉
I like to run through the pattern once with the words, then I can do the charted version without my usual amount of head-slapping and frogging.
I’m glad your friend came through surgery ok. As far as knitting goes, I’m definitely a chart person. I usually make the choice of “to knit or not to knit” based on if a chart is available.
Cables? I don’t do cables. Why? Because after I first learned to cast on, before I learned to knit and purl, my friend sent me out to pick up a pattern I’d like to learn to knit on. Yep… stupid, stupid, stupid me picked something with cables (I still have the pattern) and when it came to the cable portion of the pattern, having just learned to k & p, when the first 4 stitches (and said cable needle) I was to leave at the front of the work came flying off like an arrow, I said, NEVER AGAIN and put up my anti-cables wall! So, this winter, I’m going to dig out the pattern, wash the pieces of the sweater that never came to be and rewind the yarn into balls and DO IT, since I now have 13 years of knitting under my belt and have ventured into the world of teaching beginner’s knitting to the Thumb Suckers crew at work! Hopefully I can knit this raglan cabled sleeves sweater with ease – or burn it in my fireplace!
Oh, and P.S… my friend made me practice casting on for a WEEK until all the cast-on stitches were the same tension and I could control my tension. My friend Janet, an avid afghan knitter calls my tension perfect because she says my work looks like I bought it out of a store. Now she’s only seen two pieces of my work (we live in diffrent cities) and has only seen “The Red Sweater” on my blog. I complain non-stop about “The Red Sweater”. Don’t ask. It’s barely sewn together 2 years after finishing all the pieces. It is the bain of my existence. It is the Albatross around my neck (Rime of the Ancient Mariner).
Blah blah blah… I don’t shut up, do I?
Hugs and kisses to your friend. Speedy recovery!
You will now be in my prayers to cast that bad nasty stuff out of your knitterly body.
That being said, work on a sock until you feel better to conquering wordy cables. (Words are easier for me, but I am figuring out charts.)
Although I definitely prefer words, I can deal with a chart when I need to. But (and it’s a big BUT) charts that are printed teeny tiny *and* in different colors make me nuts! I need to photocopy them to make them large enough to see (and to have a copy or two to mark up). That means a trip to Staples and expensive color photocopies. Frankly, at that point, I just toss the pattern aside and find something else.
Continued healing vibes are headed to your friend. Personally, I would credit both the good vibes and modern medicine. 🙂
I love charts for cables and am learning to read them for lace. At this point, I still have to stop and think the first 20 or so times I see a symbol in order to remember what my hands are supposed to do.
Please get yourself a Neti pot to help with your cold and since you are a hippie type have you ever seen a naturopath or homeopath? Consider it.
Knit on!
You know, it’s interesting how stress works. Stress effectively raises your cortisol levels, which are an immune system suppressant. If your immune system holds back, then the bacteria take over a bit, but the immunocytes (white blood cells and such) don’t fight back, and so you don’t have the signs that you are sick, such as a runny nose and congestion. But when you get unstressed (such as when you finish the big pink thing and your friend comes through surgery fine) then your cortisol levels go down, your immune system kicks back in, and you get sick. Makes sense, because if you’re under pressure you don’t want to deal with hacking up stuff and finding tissues all the time.
Anyhow, what I’m trying to say is that it sounds like you’ve been under a lot of pressure, and I hope you feel better.
(I also prefer both charts and words, for a deeper understanding and a spot check on the designer.)
In Finland there’s hardly ever a written version of the pattern so I grew up with charts. Imagine my shock when I bought my first Rowan knitting book…
I can’t even begin to knit unless I see a chart.
Here’s my 2-Cents …I like to have a chart along with the written pattern, in case the pattern is wrong, at least you’d be able to see how the pattern is supposed to look. It seems to me that publishers should use both so as to accomodate everyone’s needs.
I’m glad to hear your friend came through surgery well. That’s a step in the right direction.
As for the chart vs. word thing, I crochet with charts better than with words. I’m working on learning to knit from charts. I can read cable charts no problem but lace is kicking my ass. Any advice? I’ve knit one lace shawl that is, well, a bit wonky in parts. I still can’t figure out how I went wrong.
Words only for me. I have to spend time and money blowing up the chart (on a photocopier!!) to be able to read it at all. I then have trouble remembering whether to read from the right or left! Always very confusing.
While I have knit from written instructions, I way prefer charts. And I’m not nearly so broadminded as you – I think they should include them, whether or not they’re more expensive or take up more pages. End of story.
Charts all the way! I can do cables with words… but lace? Not a hope in h*ll!
I am just now entering into the land of cables, and the patterns I’m working are written, not charted, but it seems to me when I can figure out the charts, they would be easier than written instructions. I plan to much study of “Knitting in the Old Way” to start learning to read charts.
O MAAAYAAAN too many comments to read right now so I’ll write first and read later. I’m strictly a word-knitter, and the charts look to me like some exotic language. But I’m determined, when I have a bit of free time {:mmwaaahahahaha:} to learn to read the charts. I bet publishing patterns with both would increase sales, as we could ALL have them. Just thinkin’….
Bummer on the cold! My naturopath gave me some of this stuff and it is seriously some crazy magic potion. Don’t know if you can get it in Canada, but if you can, get thee to your natural foods store quick! Disregard the back of the bottle and take two droppers-full three times a day. Tastes like hell but it clears you up so fast.
As for the charts vs words debate, this is a very interesting one to me as a designer. I think the reason most publishers don’t include both is that it’s an issue of limited space. In the Rowan book, for example, they probably have a limited number of pages they can print and could include x number of patterns with words only, or a smaller number of patterns with both. I’m sure there’s some kind of break-even study that publishers use to determine how many patterns need to go into each book. Charts sometimes take up less space, but not always.
This is where self-published patterns from indie designers have a real advantage. I am, of course, a bit biased this way, but in a single pattern leaflet it’s much easier to let your pattern run over 8-10 pages (or more) as opposed to being restricted to 2 or 3. Yes, you have to pay more for a single design, but as is so often the case, you get what you pay for (at least, you should when purchasing from a reputable designer).
I had an interesting experience with this first-hand with my Wandering Cables knee-socks, which are now a free pattern on the Interweave website. They were supposed to be included in the Winter ’06 print issue of Knits, then they got bumped to Spring ’07 due to space, and finally got bumped totally out of the mag and onto the website because of the mondo chart I used for the back-of-leg shaping. I probably could’ve condensed quite a bit if I’d used words only, had I realized that it was going to be such an issue. Live and learn!
Another thing we designers wish is that the Craft Yarn Council or some such governing body would come up with standard symbols for charts. This is something that would make things so much easier for both chart writers and readers. Right now it’s pretty much every charter for themselves. They’ve got standardization in Japan, so it is possible! Time for knitters to do some organizing and let someone (sadly, I’m not sure who, exactly) know what they want.
Oops – my link in the previous post totally failed to work. The magic potion is Wintertime Support from Oregon’s Wild Harvest – http://www.oregonswildharvest.com. You can find it under the Extracts on the last page. Fabulous stuff, that!
Charts charts charts charts charts! Ay, the words, they kill me. And while I’m ranting, schemata, please!
CHARTS !!!, and to make them even easier to follow I color code the 2/1RPC, 3/3LC,etc… so that at a glance I know what to do next.
I knit left-handed, which (in this case) means backwards — from left to right. Which means that when knitting instructions tell me to k2tog, I have to stop and translate that to ssk or k2tog tbl. I have similar problems with written cable patterns — the author assumes (rightly so, given my minority status) that I’m working from right to left, and I’m not. If the patterns aren’t symmetrical, the written instructions will be wrong.
This is why I love charts. I don’t have to think about reversing anything. I just look at the chart and make my knitting look the same way. Saves me a lot of frustration.
The wife prefers charts.
They make me dizzy and confused. I say things out loud, so charts involve touching every square and saying “one, two, three, four…ok Knit FOUR.” Coverting a chart to words bit by bit, losing my place constantly, is less than fun.
Also, I don’t “see” what the chart shows, so I find myself triple checking, and doublethinking.
That being said – the wife prefers charts, and will change words to charts.
Soooo Both please. And thank you.
Dudes, give me charts too.
And Steph, prayers for your friend, from one for whom prayers worked. 10 years ago.
Hi,
I’m a chart-person, too. Usually I translate words into charts, if this hasn’t been done for me. I have no problem about cables being presented as several charts. I’m very much a visual person, and *see* what I’m doing. Cables are so logical, that I just know which row I’m on in each chart. But that sure differs between people.
So, as to cater to everybody, I’d just say print both, but if only either of both is possible I’d prefer the chart, of course.
Chris 😎
I’m a total chart person. I learn visually. Sometimes, to be honest, words almost look like mish-mash when I’m trying to accomplish something with them – like knit.
Knitters reflect the diversity of humanity in so many ways. On the scale of visual/verbal comprehension, knitters occupy the entire spectrum. Therefore, responsible publishers should include both charts and written instructions. If they do, those publishers send an implicit signal to knitters that they respect them and wish them success. Those are the publishers who deserve our money.
(Off my soapbox now.)
I’m a chart knitter – big time.
I second what Deb in Atlanta and many others have said. In an ideal world, we would have both charts and words. Another pet peeve of mine is when a pattern doesn’t show a graphic of the finished shape of the garment or its constituent pieces. Does is have waist shaping? Is the bottom ribbing a lot tighter than the rest of the sweater? Is it going to make me look like a linebacker? These are important things to know before buying a pattern! For the first sweater I ever knit, I had such a hard time picturing how it was all going to come together–I had to get my mom to help me draw it out!
When I first started to knit, charts were very intimidating to me, and I could only knit from words. But now I agree, charts are much easier. Having both is best, of course.
Now, if we could only get every publishing company to use the same symbols on their charts…
I’m not sure what it is, but I seem to do OK with colorwork charts, but when it comes to anything else (lace, cables), I’m all thumbs. I’m working on my first lace shawl, and I can’t make heads or tails of the chart. Needless to say, it’s been slow going.
I am with you on the chart thing. I learned how to cable without words and without charts. But I am much better with charts when I follow a pattern.
On another note, about the shawl for your dear friend. I know that your health care system is better than ours down here, but I was wondering if you would consider writing up the pattern for the shawl, we would all buy it, and all the proceeds would go to her towards her medical and other expenses, like loss of pay or whatever the future may hold.
Just a thought.
PS: and I hope you feel better soon.
I have never used a chart for cabling but your sketch looks like it could be much easier to ‘read’ than the words in my current pattern. Hmmmm…I think they should provide both and allow us the choice.
Cool site. Thanks!!!
Very good site. Thanks!
Cool site. Thanks!!!